No Earth in Kitchen Downlights. What can I do?

[Vincent80]

Would this also be okay to use instead of the Deboxes?

I'd imagine these would be easier to install.

 

[Colin Brenton]

Aside from the wiring in the ceiling (which really needs sorting as already discussed), from the diagram, surely there is no earth connection from the FCU to the two gang plate switch?

As far as I can see, link the earth connection on the FCU to the earth cables going out to your lights (on the two gang switch plate).

Doing this will (hopefully) give an earth in the cable that can be chased from light to light, and joined back together or used if needed.

 

[John D v2.0]

Colin I was going to mention that, since it's a single piece of metal in the box, there may be continuity via that, but I'd still like to see a separate wire connecting them through.

 

[Vincent80]

Aside from the wiring in the ceiling (which really needs sorting as already discussed), from the diagram, surely there is no earth connection from the FCU to the two gang plate switch?

As far as I can see, link the earth connection on the FCU to the earth cables going out to your lights (on the two gang switch plate).

Doing this will (hopefully) give an earth in the cable that can be chased from light to light, and joined back together or used if needed.

Would an earth connection at the FCU be needed from the 8 x Kitchen Lights which are all Class 11?

One thing I'm unsure of is that the 2nd switch going to the ceiling lights in the rear extension, connects up to a light fitting which is NOT Class 11 and has an earth connection (from the fitting as well as when connected to the wire in the ceiling). That earth wire at the other end is connected to a screw terminal inside the metal box. Is that sufficient/safe?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Aside from the wiring in the ceiling (which really needs sorting as already discussed), from the diagram, surely there is no earth connection from the FCU to the two gang plate switch?

As far as I can see, link the earth connection on the FCU to the earth cables going out to your lights (on the two gang switch plate).

Doing this will (hopefully) give an earth in the cable that can be chased from light to light, and joined back together or used if needed.

 

[John D v2.0]

@Vincent80 basically you need an earth connection into every live terminal block or other termination. Whether the lights are class I or ii just says whether they will need the earth, but you still need it into the terminal block regardless. See efli's diagram for what you need to add for certainty.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I know this has been discussed before, but I always find it amusing how badly terminated those connections in those MF junction box stock photos are!

At least it will work, though.

Unlike the wiring in the Click Flow connector.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1.) Does this confirm that this is a Class 11 Double Insulated fitting which does not require an earth?

2.) OPTION A: If I leave the current light fittings as they are (currently have R50 bulbs varying from 28w to 40w in the 8 spots) and enclosed them all within an insulated enclosure and then change the current bulbs to R50 low voltage LED Bulbs (5w or 6w). Will that make it all safe?

3.) OPTION B: Or if I were to change all 8 of the Class 11 light fittings to new Class 1, pull back the sheath on the wire to expose the earth (and confirm earth continuity at all 8 fittings), enclose in insulated enclosure. Would that be okay/safe?

4.) Once I have done either of the above options, is the wiring at the switch fuse okay as it is? Or would any changes need to be done if going with Class 1 and bring the Earth wire back into the system at the 8 individual points?

5.) Maybe now would be an opportune time to consider if having 8 lights is a good idea. Does the space really need that many to be effectively lit? Or does it have 8 because the type of lights being used are actually designed to not light up rooms properly?

 

[Vincent80]

5.) Maybe now would be an opportune time to consider if having 8 lights is a good idea. Does the space really need that many to be effectively lit? Or does it have 8 because the type of lights being used are actually designed to not light up rooms properly?

Currently the kitchen has 8 spot lights with bulbs varying from 28/40w (2700k - 140lms) and gives off a very yellow/dull light. Easiest thing to do is to replace the bulbs with 5w LED's (cool white) and go from consuming 270w+ to 40w and at the same time making it much brighter.

 

[Vincent80]

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll run an earth from the fuse to the switch

Also in the loft I have 2 light fittings, one is a lamp (working) and the other is a fluorescent tube fitting (currently no light in it so don't know if it works - but the 2 outgoing wires are live as tested it with a mains test screwdriver). There is only one light switch in the attic.

The wiring in the tube fitting is as below and I'm not sure if this is how it should be? as the Live and Neutral from the fitting is connected in reverse!! Is it safe to put a fluorescent light in there? And will both lights come on if I put the switch on?

 

[aptsys]

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll run an earth from the fuse to the switch

Also in the loft I have 2 light fittings, one is a lamp (working) and the other is a fluorescent tube fitting (currently no light in it so don't know if it works - but the 2 outgoing wires are live as tested it with a mains test screwdriver). There is only one light switch in the attic.

The wiring in the tube fitting is as below and I'm not sure if this is how it should be? as the Live and Neutral from the fitting is connected in reverse!! Is it safe to put a fluorescent light in there? And will both lights come on if I put the switch on?

Well it's incorrectly wired as you have pointed out but would not stop the fitting from working correctly. I would switch them round if you feel competent to do so.

It would appear that the lights would all come on together.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

go from consuming 270w+ to 40w

The electricity consumption is not the problem.

 

[Vincent80]

Well it's incorrectly wired as you have pointed out but would not stop the fitting from working correctly. I would switch them round if you feel competent to do so.

It would appear that the lights would all come on together.

Thanks. I put a tube in and it worked (both lights came on). But then changed over the neutral/live wires on the fitting to how it should be.

 

[Vincent80]

I got round to putting the lights into insulated enclosures and have hit a few problems. Out of the 8 lights 5 were okay to go into the enclosures...

On two of them they were wired the wrong way around and both have red tape wrapped around the wire (on the left one you can see a symbol/letter written by biro, any idea what this could stand for?). I did re-wire them the right way around and the lights worked, but I put them back to how they were and did not put them into enclosures just yet.

What should I do in for these two wires? Put them into enclosures in reverse, like how I found them, or put them the right way around like the others? My only concern is what the red tape around them could mean and if that is the reason for them being wired in reverse. Btw, both of these fittings are next to each other if that makes any difference or helps in any way.



And finally on another one of the them the neutral wire was hanging very lose and snapped off. There is zero slack in the wire (as you can see) and there is no way that is going to go into an enclosure. So what I've done is put it into a connector like it was prior and taped it up with insulation tape. So is there any other way to fix/resolve this? (apart from re-wiring my kitchen).