Noisy boiler

[izzy eckerslike]

We finally got our new boiler from Warm front, it's an Ideal icos HE24 & I know Ideal boilers are considered poor but we had what we were given so can't complain.

however the first five minutes after start up the boiler makes a lot of loud noises - some of which can be heard all over the house, this is only with hot water selected but it sounds like some mechanism clicking & banging inside the boiler.

We called the company who fitted it (BGC) & they sent someone the same day who altered the pump ( Grundfos Alpha2L) to the III II I side & said it was to release the air in the boiler .
However next day it's back to being noisy again & whatever pump setting I use makes no difference.

However when I looked on Grundfos website I see the lefthand side settings are for systems without thermostatic valves ( we have only one) & not to release any air in the system. there are however new auto air release things fitted somewhere.

Is this a common problem with a new settup? I guess I need to call them back

 

[corgiman]

just get them back

better for ideal to deal with this one i would have thought rather that the installer

 

[Agile]

You may not have had any choice of boiler but you certainly can and should complain if its not working properly.

On a new system or boiler it does take some time for the air to be expelled and this can be up to a week depending on how the system is laid out. This will make it more noisy.

The pump was put on max to drive air forward to a point where it can be expelled. Possibly they closed that point after doing it.

Just ask them to come back when convenient.

Tony

 

[charliechaplinspants]

Not a pro, I should start with but isn`t there an l.e.d fault code on your boiler alternating between a letter then a number? also did your installer go through this with you? I think that there is also a vent inside the boiler that should be checked to make sure it`s open, could be air, have you got your manual, it tells you in there about your fault codes. Always worth checking all rads, after new install even after they have been bled initially, cos the air trapped in boiler can take it`s time to shift and may still be in the system somewhere. Has the pump been bled? All worth checking.
This is not professional advice just some things Diyer can check safely.

 

[Agile]

Not a pro, I should start with but isn`t there an l.e.d fault code on your boiler alternating between a letter then a number? also did your installer go through this with you? I think that there is also a vent inside the boiler that should be checked to make sure it`s open, could be air, have you got your manual, it tells you in there about your fault codes. Always worth checking all rads, after new install even after they have been bled initially, cos the air trapped in boiler can take it`s time to shift and may still be in the system somewhere. Has the pump been bled? All worth checking.
This is not professional advice just some things Diyer can check safely.

I certainly dont think that the user should be opening up the boiler and start fiddling inside.

There is no mention of non operation with fault codes, just noise.

Not only may this be dangerous but the installation company will claim that it invalidates their installation guarantee.

All he needs to do is to call them back.

Tony

 

[charliechaplinspants]

I certainly dont think that the user should be opening up the boiler and start fiddling inside.

Taking off the outer case, checking the auto vent & pump shouldn`t be beyond the scope of any averagely intelligent person.

There is no mention of non operation with fault codes, just noise.

If the boiler operation has not been demonstrated properly by the installer and all codes/displays not gone through, the customer may not know it`s a fault code, that`s why I asked. This particular boiler has fault codes.

Not only may this be dangerous but the installation company will claim that it invalidates their installation guarantee.

Having a boiler not fitted by a Registered engineer, doesn`t stop manufacturers coming out so I doubt bleeding his pump will have such a dramatic impact.

All he needs to do is to call them back.

I know, but in the meantime whilst he waits for x amount of days he could do these checks quite safely I would have expected.

To the OP. Agile is a professional, I am not, therefore his advice should be heeded rather than mine.

 

[bengasman]

Sadly, you are one of the thousands of people who had an inferior product installed by dodgy installers and will probably facing many more problems.
So be it, gifthorses and all that.

As mentioned above: do NOT do anything yourself. It is a commonly used excuse for voiding warrantee.

The one thing that may help to avoid large bills in years to come is officially register a complaint by RECORDED MAIL with all organisations involved:
The installing company.
AEGA, or whoever was in charge of the installer.
It seems obvious that it was a sloppy install, so if you have any doubts about the safety of the work that was done (just doubt, it is not up to you to prove it) call the Gas Safe Register (what used to be corgi) at 0800 408 5500 and simply tell them that you had a boiler installed, and that you are not quite sure it has all been done correctly. They will send somebody to inspect the installation at no cost to you whatever they find.

It is important to keep getting the installer back until you are satisfied. If the boiler has a history of problems, they can not pull the trick of dragging heir heels and blagging you off until the warrantee has expired and then hit you with enormous bills.

If you are an average case, they have been paid double of what the installation is worth ( on average about £3000 to install a boiler they paid probably less than £500 for and usually takes no more than a day).
Though you have not paid for it yourself, it was far from cheap for the taxpayer. As you probably have children/family/relatives that work hard and pay a lot of tax, you could say they paid the money, but got ripped off.

A letter to your MP, asking him/her to see if there is anything they can do to help a poor, vulnerable constituent might help more than you think; it is wonderful advertising for them if they can say they have helped people that can't fend for themselves.

If I may be so indiscreet to ask: were you charged money on top of the £2700 / £3400 pounds subsidy, or was all the work covered?

Your information is helpful to the forum as many people, customers and installers alike, suspect the whole thing is as suspect as the politicians' expense scandal.
The warmfront scam has repeatedly been questioned (to put it mildly) as the cost bears no relation to what is delivered, and it is rumoured to be widely abused.

 

[corgiman]

Not only may this be dangerous but the installation company will claim that it invalidates their installation guarantee.

Having a boiler not fitted by a Registered engineer, doesn`t stop manufacturers coming out quote]

i think you will find that it must certain does mean they wont come out to honour a warrantee



and why fiddle with it when you can get pros to sort it for free

 

[bengasman]

I can't speak for the manufacturers, but if I see that someone has been fiddling with my install work, I will charge for putting it back to what it should be, or if they don't like that, they can deal with the manufacturer themselves.

And there is something else. A lot of companies/subbies that do sloppy installs will ACTIVELY look for ways not to do warrantee repairs, as it would double their worktime for no extra money if they had to do them all.
As they use inferior materials and cut corners on the work, they have likely built up more skill in blagging, than in engineering.

Why on earth should a householder stick his fingers in the innards of a boiler anyway? If your new car makes a funny sound, you don't bend the exhaust a bit to see what happens, do you?

 

[charliechaplinspants]

All points taken on board. Thanks. The point about engineers not coming out, let me explain. A boiler installed, then found to have problems which is under warranty by that particular boiler manufacturer will still be attended to by one of their own engineers. The boiler does not have to be registered because generally the manufacturer or their engineer as a rule don`t ask.
I understand about the fact that a newly installed boiler with probs should be reported and installer dragged back to fix it if it is his problem, however, checking the pump`s full and auto valve open without interfering within the combustion chamber is hardly dangerous, you are quite right, he/she doesn`t have to but lets keep it real before anyone starts accusing anyone of giving out dangerous advice.

All this information as you chaps know is readily available within the MIs left with the boiler for the customer to do with what they wish.

 

[Razor900]

I agree with Chaz, checking the pump on an Icos shouldn't involve opening the combustion chamber!

Priceless

 

[charliechaplinspants]

I agree with Chaz, checking the pump on an Icos shouldn't involve opening the combustion chamber!

Priceless

Hands up all those like myself who have just realised that it`s not a combi.
All the more reason why he can bleed his pump without definitely going into chamber. Told you I was no pro. Thanks razor, I am suitably ashamed.

 

[izzy eckerslike]

Thanks for info folks,
apart from the first few minutes with noise the boiler is incredibly fast at heating the cylinder in the loft, it's set for just 20 minutes a day to keep it piping hot so I am impressed with that as our old boiler used to take over an hour & then lose the heat even tho it was lagged.
The bloke that came after my call was the company inspector who didn't actually release any air from anywhere altho he pointed out in the loft what he called automatic air bleeders by the tank & above the boiler room below but there again he told me the pump settings on the left were to bleed the air out which is not correct according to Grundfos website

my guess is that the air is still in the system as when it starts up I can hear it going thru the pipes for a few minutes & then it settles down & is noiseless & apart from 2hrs when the installers first fired it up the central heating has not been on - only hot water

Bengasaman:

we originally had a warmfront costing of nearly £5,000!!! a few months back when they decided the only place to fit a new one would be in the loft & not in the veranda, we were asked to pay £1945 so we asked for another warmfront surveyor to find a more suitable place, in the meantime the grant went up to £3500, a different company found the only suitable place was in a kitchen cupboard altho we have a pantry that was suitable & I showed him that & he said it would cause problems with the flue but 2 days before the installers came we had a bloke come to see what pipework was required & I convinced him the pantry was a better idea so he checked the flue options & it was just allowable .

All in all it cost us nothing for the new boiler & hot water cylinder & all the new pipework which runs across the loft floor in a different direction to the original & the electricians who came had to also upgrade the earthing all over the place. We are pensioners on low income & this is going to save us a lot of money in heating bills overall.

 

[corgiman]

I agree with Chaz, checking the pump on an Icos shouldn't involve opening the combustion chamber!

Priceless

Hands up all those like myself who have just realised that it`s not a combi.
All the more reason why he can bleed his pump without definitely going into chamber. Told you I was no pro. Thanks razor, I am suitably ashamed.

I am sorry what differance would it make it it were a isar! why would you need to remove the combustion chamber seal to see the pump in either a system icos or an isar as the pump is not in eithers .

IMHO you must be careful offering advice in a field that you have no expertise in, blimey charlie its a minefield for those of us who are, as terrible mistakes can be made.

I know you keep saying that you are not a pro after you offer advice but you still insist on offering the advice.

Also you said "All this information as you chaps know is readily available within the MIs left with the boiler for the customer to do with what they wish"

not quite as on page one of all MI's they state you MUST not work on the boiler unless proven competant. not quite the same as being able to "do as they wish"

 

[bengasman]

Bengasaman:

we originally had a warmfront costing of nearly £5,000!!! a few months back when they decided the only place to fit a new one would be in the loft & not in the veranda, we were asked to pay £1945 so we asked for another warmfront surveyor to find a more suitable place, in the meantime the grant went up to £3500, a different company found the only suitable place was in a kitchen cupboard altho we have a pantry that was suitable & I showed him that & he said it would cause problems with the flue but 2 days before the installers came we had a bloke come to see what pipework was required & I convinced him the pantry was a better idea so he checked the flue options & it was just allowable....

Outrageous. I will be doing a conversion to sealed system next month, including complete rerun of pipework water and gas, removing a backboiler unit, and using top quality boiler and controls for less than the £3500 at London prices. Asking you for an extra 2 grand is just ridiculous.