Noisy pump, rads not bleeding etc.....

[xMeta4x]

Hi All,

I've search and searched this site, and found lots of good information, but I have a few specifics about my particular problem if you have the time to answer...

A plumber just came and fitted an automatic 3 way valve in place of a manual one for me. To do this he drained the system.

Having turned the water back on, the pump is making a crackly/gurgly noise when running, only a couple of radiators are hot (all downstairs) and if I try and bleed the upstairs ones I get a hiss for a little while then it goes silent (no water).

The boiler only seems to come on for very short periods of time too.

He said that there wasn't enough water in the system due to the size of my pipes (?!) so "primed" it by pouring in water somewhere (not sure where, he used a jug and bucket).

I tried to bleed the pump (celcia multi head) by unscrewing the big screw in the middle, and I get nothing, no air or water.

I know this stinks of a blocked feed pipe, and I even mentioned it to the plumber, but he didn't think so (based on what I don't know). He said to call if it doesn't work, which or course it isn't, and he'll fill it up from the mains!!!!

Please help!

Andy

 

[Bobbo 85.]

Get in the loft,find little tank,check water is working at ball valve,see if water is full in tank,check to see there is no valves on pipe from bottom of small tank,if so open them up

 

[Bobbo 85.]

Always vent with boiler off,dont have pump running,if your c/feed is blocked,then you can backfil system from main,but make sure u get c/fedd cleared as your expansion may be blocked,is it a seperate feed and ex,has it got a 22mm pipe over the top of small tank or 1 22 m pipe into bottom,what boiler is it,any air vents at cylinder and has he fitted new mzv right way,try just manually opening it by hooking lever into the slot ,is it a honeywell

 

[xMeta4x]

Thanks for the reply Bobbo.

The expansion tank has water, and depressing the ball cock makes it fill. The tank has 2 pipes of similar size going in; one at the top where the ball valve is, and one at the bottom under the water. There's also an overflow.

The boiler and pump are off when I try and bleed the radiators.

The 3-port valve is a honeywell (from a y-plan installer kit) and he tested that. Like I say some of the rads get hot. The boiler is a potterton profile 60e.

Why would the radiators hiss when bled and then stop?

 

[xMeta4x]

Anyone else? *bump*

 

[gas_man_gaz]

sounds like ya cold feed is partially blocked, if ya leave um for a while n keep bleeding um it may eventually fill but ya best off sortin it out.. id get sum1 else to go n hav a look at it 4ya! like bob said ya could back fill the system to get it goin

 

[tryitandsee]

If the rad hisses when you bleed it and no water comes out, or the pump with screw removed, it sounds like your getting expansion in the system (when boiler operates for short periods) which should be relieved through your expansion/feed pipe. The expansion/feed pipe must be blocked.

When the plumber replaced the 3 way valve and was ready to fill up, I suspect the crap in the tank blocked the expansion/feed pipe half way through filling the system. Hence he filled with bucket and jug, hoping that it would get over the problem.

 

[JohnD]

tie up the ball valve

bale out the F&E and sponge out all the mud and sediment from the bottom (you don't want to add to what you've already got)

then allow it to fill up with fresh water

then tie up the ball valve again

If you drain a bucket of water out of the drain valve, you should expect the same amount to flow down from the F&E tank.

I suspect you will find none flows down, because it sounds like a blocked feed to me.

see also
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=771846#771846
but in your description you did not mention a 22mm vent pipe curved over the top of the F&E

If you do get any water flowing down, add a bottle of sentinel X400 (£15 at your DIY shed) which breaks up sediment. However it will not clear a completely blocked pipe as it cannot be pumped round the pipe to the blockage. A blocked pipe has to be cut out. A plumber can easily do this (it is very common) but the one you had in does not sound first-class to me. Or you can DIY it.

 

[xMeta4x]

Thanks for the replies. It occured to me that I'm trying to bleed the rads with the heating off. Am I right in thinking that the 3 port valve "rests" supplying the hot water? If so then I'm not likely to be able to bleed the radiators without turning the valve to manual or similar.

I'll have a crack at that tonight, and also go over the pipes with a magnet.

If I do have to get another plumber in, what would it cost me roughly to fix the cold feed? I'm in High Wycombe (so south east) if that helps.

(The current plumber is a commerical engineer, so I suspect rarely sees a domestic setup. Friend of family )

 

[JohnD]

as long as the pump and boiler are off, you can bleed rads regardless of 3-port valve position. If they don't squirt water out, you have a lack of water and/or pressure.

 

[xMeta4x]

I checked and I don't have a vent pipe over my expansion tank. The tank has in inlet (with a ball valve) at the top, and the a feed out of the bottom. It had a jacket on it, with a foam lid.

It's an old servowarm install, should this be something I should worry about?

 

[JohnD]

can you post a pic of the pipes round the cylinder, round the pump, round the boiler, and round the F&E tank?

 

[xMeta4x]

Haven't had a chance to take an pictures, but I did trace the cold feed from the expansion tank down to the first "T" and applied a magnet which is drawn to this connection.

I guess that means i have a blocked cold feed, so I (hopefully) have a guy coming out to look at it today.

I'll keep everyone updated - always useful to have a resolution at the end of topics for people searching with the same issue!

 

[JohnD]

if you can afford an extra £100 plus fitting, ask him to put a Magnaclean in as well. He'll need to know before he sets out to you.

 

[xMeta4x]

...and so the saga continues!

Plumber no. 2 looked around for a couple of hours, scratched his head, and admitted that he didn't have a clue what was going on.

Plumber no. 1 still thinks that I should back fill the system from the mains to get it going. I think I'm going to have to give that a try.

Any tips on how I can do it without the bleed valve ****ing water everywhere??!?