Non-earthed downlights, not class 2. In the bin?

[McKenna32]

GU10 = pins 10mm apart
GU5.3 = pins 5.3mm apart

MR16 = Multifaceted Reflector, 16 x ⅛inch diameter.

Although we see "MR16" used in relation to LEDs, it is rarely, if ever, correct - since, although the '16' may be correct (i.e. 2" diameter) LEDs rarely, if ever, will have multifaceted reflectors ('MR').

(they are usually GU5.3 - with a different type, and spacing, of pins).

My confusion was solely around the pins. I thought MR16 referred to the pin arrangement now understood as GU5.3. Understood LED is not MR. Thanks for the clarification.

I've found a source for the old downlighters anyway (94002) so I'll be fitting those instead of my "upgraded" 12V ones. Despite them testing up fine it wouldn't pass the "jury of my peers" test given that they had a big fat 12V sticker on the side. Still interested to know why on earth anyone would make a 12V GU10 fitting given that I can find precisely zero 12V GU10s out there.

And the 94002's are still going to get treated to a cpc as the double insulation claim does raise an eyebrow still.

 

[EFLImpudence]

My confusion was solely around the pins. I thought MR16 referred to the pin arrangement now understood as GU5.3. Understood LED is not MR. Thanks for the clarification.

Not only yours. Manufacturers and sellers don't know, either.

I've found a source for the old downlighters anyway (94002) so I'll be fitting those instead of my "upgraded" 12V ones. Despite them testing up fine it wouldn't pass the "jury of my peers" test given that they had a big fat 12V sticker on the side.

I doubt there is any difference.

Still interested to know why on earth anyone would make a 12V GU10 fitting

The lamp holders are the lampholders.
If you connect them to a 12V supply, then they are 12V ones (like the E27)

given that I can find precisely zero 12V GU10s out there.

These are unavailable at present.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dimmable-Spotlight-Light-Downlight-White/dp/B00LWZGTZM
but I'm beginning to think that they are unavailable because of mistakes due to the ignorance about what the terms mean.
I.e. because they look like MR16 someone labeled them as 12V.
Searches for "12V GU10" reult in many false finds, as you have obviously found.
Also, there are a great many which do not mention any voltage.

 

[ericmark]

I can see today class I and class II lights make a huge difference, but only since so called energy saving lamps hit the market place, in the days of tungsten lamps they were too hot to handle without gloves, so did not really matter about the earth, they were always switched off, and unless you can read the sticker, hardly matters if marked as double insulated or isolation as you simply don't know.

When my mothers kitchen was made disabled friendly the firm doing the electrics missed the fact house built before 1966 and no earth to lights, I had to pay double normal price for a 2D lamp clearly marked double insulated, it looked no different to B&Q special but twice the price and had the sticker. Bought from a firm specialising in class II light, I am sure actually same lamp with a sticker on.

That kitchen started with a bulb, then a fluorescent with a BA22d connector, then a surface mount fluorescent and from 1952 to 2006 no one got a shock, then class II fitted, and finally rewire so now there is an earth, the 2D was the most dangerous lamp of the lot, the shade fell off many times once hitting me, gave me quite a shock as did not expect things to drop from ceiling.

As an electrician working in other peoples homes I would test the earth to lamps, but in my own home, don't think I have ever tested the earth, I had an adaptor for BA22d lamps so I could test, but with a GU10 getting connection to test would be hard, and always switch off anyway before changing bulb, so unless your going to actually test, then no point worrying about an earth connection. Does not matter if wire connected, unless you test that wire.

 

[JohnW2]

... in the days of tungsten lamps they were too hot to handle without gloves, so did not really matter about the earth, they were always switched off ....

Hmmm. Lamps/bulbs are usually changed when they have died and, unless one is pretty quick off the mark (after the death) a dead lamp/bulb is cold, whether it is switched on or off!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Hmmm. Lamps/bulbs are usually changed when they have died and, unless one is pretty quick off the mark (after the death) a dead lamp/bulb is cold, whether it is switched on or off!

Kind Regards, John

But the replacement will work as soon as fitted, so gloves was the way to ensure you did not burn your hands, I must admit very few rooms with only one bulb, and all light switches up is off, so I do know when switched off. But once you have had one bulb shatter as you try to remove it, you wear gloves, however today with bulbs made of plastic, they don't physically break in the same way, so there is a tendency not to bother with gloves, however still the light is about the only item where you can gain assess to live parts without the use of a key or tool.

Up until 1966 we did not have earths on lights. And even today hard to test the earth on a light, the old BA22d plug used to power the smoothing iron from lights has gone, so trying to plug an earth loop impedance tester into a light fitting is not easy, and it is made harder with so many types of lamp connectors, GU10, E14, E27, E28, BA22d one would need a whole host of adaptors to test the earth loop impedance, and if not testing then why worry? Even with the wires connected at lamp, they may not be connected further back.

 

[JohnW2]

But the replacement will work as soon as fitted, so gloves was the way to ensure you did not burn your hands, ...

You must be too slow - since it takes finite amount of time for an incandescent bulb envelope to get hot enough to burn one's hands! I have to admit that, in my time, I have inserted many incandescent bulbs into 'live holders', but have never used gloves.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Keithmac]

I can see today class I and class II lights make a huge difference, but only since so called energy saving lamps hit the market place, in the days of tungsten lamps they were too hot to handle without gloves, so did not really matter about the earth, they were always switched off, and unless you can read the sticker, hardly matters if marked as double insulated or isolation as you simply don't know.

When my mothers kitchen was made disabled friendly the firm doing the electrics missed the fact house built before 1966 and no earth to lights, I had to pay double normal price for a 2D lamp clearly marked double insulated, it looked no different to B&Q special but twice the price and had the sticker. Bought from a firm specialising in class II light, I am sure actually same lamp with a sticker on.

That kitchen started with a bulb, then a fluorescent with a BA22d connector, then a surface mount fluorescent and from 1952 to 2006 no one got a shock, then class II fitted, and finally rewire so now there is an earth, the 2D was the most dangerous lamp of the lot, the shade fell off many times once hitting me, gave me quite a shock as did not expect things to drop from ceiling.

As an electrician working in other peoples homes I would test the earth to lamps, but in my own home, don't think I have ever tested the earth, I had an adaptor for BA22d lamps so I could test, but with a GU10 getting connection to test would be hard, and always switch off anyway before changing bulb, so unless your going to actually test, then no point worrying about an earth connection. Does not matter if wire connected, unless you test that wire.

Worth testing your lighting earths, all our downstairs wasn't earthed due to a bodged light fitting, it was the first one from the Consumer Unit so everything after that fitting wasn't earthed at all.

Even worse was the earth in the twin and earth wires actually picked up 70v!.

 

[ericmark]

My burnt fingers was with a quartz bulb, always use a hanky but that was not enough with quartz.

And yes many a lamp and for that matter socket is missing an earth, so hard to test a lamp, easy plug in testers for sockets, I did have a ba22d plug and wandering earth lead, but when ses, ba15d, gu10 and a host more came along I gave up making adaptors to test them.

Theory nothing to stop having a Maestro to 13A adaptor to test ceiling socket, but at £25 or so for the plug, and next house might be klic sockets, as with 13A sockets they are designed so you can't easy make contact with live parts, so guilty as charged, did not test it.