Not sure of building reg's regarding fire ...

[Spedley]

I'm working out ideas for an extension to my 3 bed semi. Trying to see what the alternatives are and how I can get the most for my money. My ideal option is a bit pricey but by far the best, however I'm not sure it fits with fire regulations.
I plan on having 3 stories but I'm not certain if my stairwell would pass.

(Sorry for dodgy stair drawings )

Firstly, looking at the first floor where the 2nd floor comes down to 'Y': I can't find any examples with the stairwell internal. I can't see it making any difference but I need to be sure.

Secondly, my stairs open to what will be the dining room at X (or you could call it a large hallway!). The dining room itself has a final exit and one fire door leads to a final exit and the other door leads indirectly to final exits. This seems to be ok but again, I can't find any examples where the stairwell opens to a 'room'.

2.6 ... the top floor ...
ii. Give access to at least two escape routes at ground level, each delivering to final exits and separated from each other by fire-resisting construction and fire doors, see Diagram 2(b); or

Any constructive help would be much appreciated, specifically anything which states it is possible.

(The second floor hasn't been draw yet)

 

[^woody^]

I can't tell what's existing and proposed, but you are unlikely to get approval for any design with stairs that exit into a room.

 

[msmsm]

I did a loft conversion with stairs exiting into a room like above. I needed to have an automist system installed in the room to protect it long enough to use it as an exit route. However I didn't have a final exit in the room the stairs ended in, so that might go in your favour. My local building control were more than willing to come round for an informal chat about my options before I started so that would be your best option.

 

[chappers]

the thing is if it is a habitable room then it has it's own fire risk, unlike a genuine hallway, where the risk is greatly reduced.

 

[tony1851]

However you propose the plans - don't involve the council for Building Control purposes. Use private inspectors instead - they are far more practical and realistic than many LABC bods - particularly where means of escape is involved.

 

[Doggit]

I would suggest you employ the services of an architechural technician. Your rooms have so many door is each of them, that they will be faily useless.

 

[Spedley]

I did a loft conversion with stairs exiting into a room like above. I needed to have an automist system installed in the room to protect it long enough to use it as an exit route. However I didn't have a final exit in the room the stairs ended in, so that might go in your favour. My local building control were more than willing to come round for an informal chat about my options before I started so that would be your best option.

However you propose the plans - don't involve the council for Building Control purposes. Use private inspectors instead - they are far more practical and realistic than many LABC bods - particularly where means of escape is involved.

That's the kind of advice I was looking for. Never heard of automist but I think a protected escape route can be used for fire regs.
I didn't know you had an alternative to council inspectors? Thanks will look into it.

P.S. on the first floor, the bottom centre room and top right room are shared en-suite hence the number of doors. All my current downstairs rooms have two doors and most modern bedrooms have 2: one for entry and one en-suite.

 

[chappers]

3 doors in one bathroom would drive me nuts, 2 is bad enough. I agree if that was my house they would have to go. they're pointless only one room can use the bathroom at once I would rather have the usable space in the bathrooms and bedrooms.

 

[Doggit]

P.S. on the first floor, the bottom centre room and top right room are shared en-suite hence the number of doors. All my current downstairs rooms have two doors and most modern bedrooms have 2: one for entry and one en-suite.

An ensuite bathroom, is one dedicated to the room it's in. A shared bathroom is one that can be used by more than one person, but normally only has one door. If a bathroom has two doors, then you either have complete trust and familiarity in the other users, or a fun and games set of locks that stops other users coming in the other door. Avoid this setup like the plague. Trust me, you will never sell this property with a setup like this.

 

[tomfe]

I would suggest you employ the services of an architechural technician. Your rooms have so many door is each of them, that they will be faily useless.

Totally agree unless you like the warren style of moving through many rooms.
Your front entrance is also too small.

 

[chappers]

yep the circulation and flow is totally pants. You are trying to squeeze too much in.
Houses either need to be open plan or else have circulation space. By cutting back on the size and maybe even the compartmentalising of all these rooms, you could create some circulation space (a hallway) on the ground floor which would not only create a more inviting entrance to the house but would also solve your fire safety issues.

 

[^woody^]

Probably best to let a proper designer do it.

 

[Doggit]

Spedly, post a picture of the house, and then explain what you are trying to acjieve. You're also got, and are doing, a 3 story extension, but haven't shown us the top floor layout.

 

[Spedley]

Thanks for your help folks! I'll look into sprinklers and see if I can treat the dining area with the stairs as a kind of "gallery area". Obviously I'll get an architect's input as they will be drawing up the structural plans. I have no plans to sell it and apart from a few minor changes it is what I want.
Thanks again.

 

[Spedley]

I have greatly improved my design to avoid my issues and incorporate suggestions from here. I have moved the stairs to the hallway to avoid the fire issue altogether and it gives slightly more space in the hallway (this also avoid the need to cut through a major beam in the house which is a bonus and it improves stair access in the loft space.)
I have kept all the doors - I like doors - although I may remove the top one from the main living area (left of left drawing) but I quite like the alcove it creates for chairs etc.
I also moved one of the bottom bathroom doors to use the same space as the main door.
P.S. All the bathroom doors will be interlocked (normally locked and electronically unlocked when the handle is pressed down. Exit will only be possible through the last door of entry (or main door). A motion sensor in the bathroom will confirm bathroom is vacated when all the doors are shut to allow resetting and entry from another door.