One installers message to the public

[ianniann]

As a customer rather than an installer or boiler control designer, I'm a big fan of providing systems that provide what the user needs. Even systems that provide what the user thinks they need when you think they need something else. All this fiddling about trying to design in an extra percent or two of efficiency into some idealised model of a house uniformly maintaining a particular temperature completely misses the point that there are people in there. People are weird, they can be hot at 18C one day and cold at 22C the next day. They can be in the kitchen all one day, working late the next day, and in bed with a hangover half the next day. Any heating control system has to recognise those needs and those changing needs, and not by having to reprogram an "intelligent" controller through a system of abstract codes and pressing three buttons at once.

Some ideas for you control designers out there. One touch access to change the time everything kickstarts the next day. I don't get up at the same time every day of the week and I don't want to spend half the evening programming a black box because I have to catch a train to London at dawn. A simple dial is nice, remember those? Make it digital if you want, but make it easy. How about individual temperature regimes for individual rooms, without having to have a fifty quid controller on every radiator. I don't want the bedroom warm at the same times that I want the kitchen warm. I don't want the TV room heated all night just so I can sleep comfortably on a cold night. How about a way to warm up the house in time for when I get home even though I don't run on clockwork and arrive home digitally at the same time every day. Text messages? "8teen C plz cntrllr"

Then you can start worrying about how to do it all smoothly if the sun comes out unexpectedly.

 

[tamz]

As a customer rather than an installer or boiler control designer, I'm a big fan of providing systems that provide what the user needs. Even systems that provide what the user thinks they need when you think they need something else. All this fiddling about trying to design in an extra percent or two of efficiency into some idealised model of a house uniformly maintaining a particular temperature completely misses the point that there are people in there. People are weird, they can be hot at 18C one day and cold at 22C the next day. They can be in the kitchen all one day, working late the next day, and in bed with a hangover half the next day. Any heating control system has to recognise those needs and those changing needs, and not by having to reprogram an "intelligent" controller through a system of abstract codes and pressing three buttons at once.

Some ideas for you control designers out there. One touch access to change the time everything kickstarts the next day. I don't get up at the same time every day of the week and I don't want to spend half the evening programming a black box because I have to catch a train to London at dawn. A simple dial is nice, remember those? Make it digital if you want, but make it easy. How about individual temperature regimes for individual rooms, without having to have a fifty quid controller on every radiator. I don't want the bedroom warm at the same times that I want the kitchen warm. I don't want the TV room heated all night just so I can sleep comfortably on a cold night. How about a way to warm up the house in time for when I get home even though I don't run on clockwork and arrive home digitally at the same time every day. Text messages? "8teen C plz cntrllr"

Then you can start worrying about how to do it all smoothly if the sun comes out unexpectedly.

Iann
That is only what the designers aspire to but unfortunately their smart controls are just not smart enough so they con the troops with waffle

 

[The Baker]

My point in mentioning Weather compensation on the forum is because I genuinly feel it can save the less well off a significant amount of money for a small initial out lay.

By installing the outside sensor and programmerble room stat with a set back temperature facility their homes can be kept warm (not hot and not cold) whist they are out, this can allow a slightly lower peak time temperatur for a lot of customers.

For the previous gents needs the Honeywell Radio Frequency radiator valves may be a partial answer, I am not aware if the telephone link from the person travelling home to their heating system is yet avallable in the UK.

Tim

PS have a look at the i sence.

http://uk.remeha.com/fileadmin/user...Site_UK/Oct_folders/Remeha_iSense_Leaflet.pdf

 

[mehran]

ianniann you would be a right chewy customer

so you can the control be be as simple as a dial but knows what times you get up before you even know .

you want it to heat your home at different times every day with out doing any programing.

and you want it to mind read how hot you feel at different temperatures.

sounds completely reasonable

 

[mickyg]

I am not aware if the telephone link from the person travelling home to their heating system is yet avallable in the UK.

Look harder.

http://www.heatmisershop.co.uk/products/Telephone-Remote-Control-%2d-Heatmiser-TR2.html

WC ain't the only fancy technology you know
Control trvs by pc as well if it floats your boat.

 

[ALEC1]

Yes I'm alec from argi!


installers or technicians are not control designers...all we can do is advise the public.

And many of us are seeing that these controls provide very high levels of user comfort with lower gas bills, and are very cost effective, adding may be £50 to the boiler install!

The obsession to fiddle is the sign of a poor heating system, not just the controls..

haven't most people got more to do than fret about the heating system? surely a level temperature that you can temporarily boost, or reduce is closer to perfection than on-off controls that confuse people just as much if not more than intelligent heating...

turning things on and off is inherently wasteful in "regularly" used spaces...as a higher than necessary amount of heat has to be sent into the room to "recover" the temperature. This boost forces the boiler out of condensing mode and to be inefficient!

Thats why trickle heating continuoulsy is more economical than inermittent heating. CLearly though, if a space is not used frequently then it should be allowed to run at a lower temperature. All heat will do is travel to the coldest rooms from the warmest unless the rooms are indiviually insulated

 

[namsag]

As i said earlier scripted one member of argi posts it and another who has just registered on this site comes on and backs it all up .... Did yous discuss what you where going to put in the pub before hand.

I take it mickeypee is also a member

 

[ALEC1]

no not at all..

given the level of ignorance of the public and the industry anyone saying anything is good

 

[ianniann]

I think a more accurate word then "ignorant" would be "cynical". For the simple reason that people are fed up being called ignorant and then sold something extremely expensive and inappropriate for their needs

Already on this thread I've been told that I'm the one in the wrong because I keep irregular hours and may be away from home for intervals and so don't want to keep my house continually heated to some arbitrary temperature decided on by someone I don't know. I've been accused of wanting psychic electronics when all I actually want is the ability to change when the heating comes on and off without taking a 3-day programming course. Forget to press the save button after fiddling for ten minutes and I end up having breakfast in the cold.

And now I'm accused of obsessive fiddling when I'm not the one trying to design a heating system that can predict the future to grab an extra percent of efficiency. You can probably guess I'm not a big fan of the nanny state and I'm not a big fan of nanny boiler systems either

 

[ALEC1]

I don't know why anyone would be cynical of heating technology..all it can do is work as programmed..

If your house is so thermally challenged that you turn the heating off and it gets cold in 10 minutes perhaps the solution i more insulation...not heating at all...

 

[mehran]

The boiler can only do what you tell it to do. ..

plenty of easy to use to programmable room stat out there but all of them need user input... yes at some point in your life you are going to need to touch one form or another of heating control.

I want to give my customers the tools to have comfortable heating system and show them how to save money. WC and open therm are two of them tools.

nothing complex or hard about that.

 

[gas4you]

In case some don't know my opinion of WC.

What a load of old *******s

 

[towan]

Logic rf programable room stat is opentherm enabled. This room stat will modulate the boiler.
Regards
Dan