One installers message to the public

[ALEC1]

The cdi range has weather compensation.

yes this country is shamefully technophobic, the problem is that the manufacturers are almost all without exception only interested in selling quantity, and this is not helped by building regulations which are based on a very old fashioned view of energy efficiency. There is no evidence that turning things on and off saves energy, but plenty of understanding that indicates that load compensation controls save energy.

TRVs are not required with weather compensation as the boiler varies the flow temperature. However it may be an idea to install them on the bedroom radiators to allow some flexibility in compensating of undersized radiators/difficult to heat rooms.

Indeed TRVs can fight the system and cause flow issues. Much better to aim to run the heating at the lowest temperature possible thus maintaining comfort levels burning the minimum amount of gas

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

The cdi range has weather compensation.

yes this country is shamefully technophobic, the problem is that the manufacturers are almost all without exception only interested in selling quantity, and this is not helped by building regulations which are based on a very old fashioned view of energy efficiency. There is no evidence that turning things on and off saves energy, but plenty of understanding that indicates that load compensation controls save energy.

TRVs are not required with weather compensation as the boiler varies the flow temperature. However it may be an idea to install them on the bedroom radiators to allow some flexibility in compensating of undersized radiators/difficult to heat rooms.

Indeed TRVs can fight the system and cause flow issues. Much better to aim to run the heating at the lowest temperature possible thus maintaining comfort levels burning the minimum amount of gas

So if you fit WC control and dont fit TRV's, how does sthat square up with Part L

 

[ALEC1]

it doesn't even though weather comp gives credit in offices but not in domestic buildings.

Understanding the technology is the key to energy efficiency not following rules

This is a "tragic" mistake of the UK energy policy, compromising boiler life and ensuring that more co2 than necessary is emitted to the environment.

of course the person who pays is jo public...all because a civil servant was mis advised by a specialist!

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

If we dont follow the rules we get threatened with being nailed up.

 

[tamz]

You can give people all the best energy saving controls available but the first time the Mrs has to go get a jumper because she feels cold (and they always feel cold) it will all be overriden. You have to overcome that one first. Get them to believe it is not cold.
I&C stuff is different because the muppets generally don't have access to the controls to play with them.

 

[mickyg]

So I need to fit the boiler, hard wired opentherm progstat, and weather compensation unit

I think the Logic allows you just to fit the sensor and then use generic controls. Opentherm is just the name of a type of communication, have a look at the website http://www.opentherm.eu/pages/why.html

If you fit the sensor and set the curve your away for an extra £20 or so, silly not to imo. I fit all my ATAGs with WC, some with modulating controls and some with generic, depends on the system and the customer.
As for running wires, well Honeywell promised us a Wireless opentherm controller(CM957?) some time at the end of last year, but as far its been a complete no show, and who could blame them? most installers don't know what it is let alone buy the damn thing!

 

[namsag]

With Tamz on this the public in general dont want anything that sounds or is complicated .
They want to feel there rads start to get hot at the time they set clock to come on and something to override it when it feels cold .

Something strange about this topic looks very scripted .

 

[mehran]

Something strange about this topic looks very scripted .

yeah, all sounds way to positives so far.

the way to get around the "cold wife" syndrome is simple fit an outside sensor and let them turn up or down the room Thermostat to her hearts content. it is not our job to tell people how hot to run their house only tell them how best to do it.

 

[ianniann]

There's some very simple things to remember. Any technology that doesn't allow the user to press a button to warm up when he feels cold is going to be a complete failure because it will be turned off or sworn at. Technology that aims to constantly keep a house at a temperature that prevents anyone ever feeling cold is probably keeping it too warm. In the end, too many people are trying to engineer for the wellbeing of the boiler and too few for the wellbeing of the user. The technology probably needs to aim to keep 90% of people warm enough 90% of the time and be flexible enough to make things easy to adjust the rest of the time. If I'm cold then I want the boiler to fire at maximum even if only for a short time, not to tell me that everything will be OK eventually, or worse still that everything is OK right now and I'm being an idiot

Personally it's all a complete waste for me. I don't need heating at all when I'm out or when I'm still hot from working, and no intelligent controller in the world is going to be able to know when that is. Nor will it be able to tell when I have the flu and need my study heated to 25C. So forget weather compensation and let me know when you have some human compensation controllers

 

[mehran]

thats more like it

i would like to point to my last post and expand on it:

the way to get around the "cold wife" syndrome is simple fit an outside sensor and let them turn up or down the room Thermostat to her hearts content. it is not our job to tell people how hot to run their house only tell them how best to do it.

no one is saying that you cant have you home at what ever temp you want. If your cold turn up your room stat. use a programmable room stat to switch to a set back or off when your out or at night.


no one has made a NAZI room stat yet that tells you when you can have heating on or off.

WC just reduces the flow temp the warmer it is outside....simple

 

[ianniann]

no one has made a NAZI room stat yet that tells you when you can have heating on or off

I hear the new "Part M" legislation will mandate maximum temperature caps on thermostats. I predict 20C from the Tories, 19C if Labour get re-elected, 18C if the Lib-Dems call blackmail in a hung parliament, and if the Green Party gets a surprise landslide victory we'll be capped at 6C with no heating at all on Earth Day

[code:1]WC just reduces the flow temp the warmer it is outside[/code:1]
A bit like I do WC controllers also regulate the flow temperature based on the differential between the setpoint and the actual temperature. The aim is to combine all available information to smoothly reach towards and then maintain the setpoint, rather than charging through it like a bull at a gate and then switching everything off.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

There's some very simple things to remember. Any technology that doesn't allow the user to press a button to warm up when he feels cold is going to be a complete failure because it will be turned off or sworn at. Technology that aims to constantly keep a house at a temperature that prevents anyone ever feeling cold is probably keeping it too warm. In the end, too many people are trying to engineer for the wellbeing of the boiler and too few for the wellbeing of the user. The technology probably needs to aim to keep 90% of people warm enough 90% of the time and be flexible enough to make things easy to adjust the rest of the time. If I'm cold then I want the boiler to fire at maximum even if only for a short time, not to tell me that everything will be OK eventually, or worse still that everything is OK right now and I'm being an idiot

Personally it's all a complete waste for me. I don't need heating at all when I'm out or when I'm still hot from working, and no intelligent controller in the world is going to be able to know when that is. Nor will it be able to tell when I have the flu and need my study heated to 25C. So forget weather compensation and let me know when you have some human compensation controllers

Yea, and I will end up with the 10% of miserys that nothing will be right, it's like the statistic of one in four women are always up for it, well for the last 56 years I have only ever met the other three

 

[tamz]

 

[D_Hailsham]

further information at www.ecotechnicians.co.uk

You wouldn't, by pure coincidence of course , happen to be the Alec mentioned at the top of this page ?

 

[Biggles..]

If he is,he's straying from his regular forum.