'Open Element' Electric Fires

[Pietros]

Hi All,

Is the use of these fires still acceptable? ie the elements behind the front grill are actually exposed live parts.

Came across a few on a periodic and I'm leaning towards a code 1-any thoughts???

Thanks in advance.

 

[RF Lighting]

Certainly not a code 1.

It does not pose an immediate risk to life or property.

Maybe code 3

 

[Spark123]

Up to you - not sure if the appliance comes under BS7671 tho.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Indeed, is it a plug in or is it directly wired as part of the fixed wiring installation??

Maybe the way the element glows red is intended as a warning to the user not to touch it when its switched on??

 

[Pietros]

Points taken, the fires are in a school and connected through switched fused connection units.

As they are 'attached' to the installation, I feel I have to comment on them.

If only the red glow did serve as a warning to school kids-you would not believe what we find in these installations-screws forced into socket outlet live holes etc-all due to ignorance rather that a lack of fear!

Thanks again

 

[Taylortwocities]

They would be the subject of PAT testing rather than under fixed wiring regulations.

If you are concerned about electrical safety of these then why not change the FCUs for RCD protected ones? 10mA if you can find it...

 

[GaryMo]

They would be the subject of PAT testing rather than under fixed wiring regulations.

If you are concerned about electrical safety of these then why not change the FCUs for RCD protected ones? 10mA if you can find it...

Just thinking out loud.....

What's the difference between an outside light fixed to a wall and connected to a FCU with flex and a wall mounted heater (is it wall mounted?) connected to a FCU with flex?

When carrying out a PIR would you measure R1+R2 or R2 and Zs at the outside light fitting? Would you consider the cable supplying the light part of the fixed wiring?

Is the fire really a portable appliance?

I would be inclined to note them on my report.

 

[tim west]

They do have grills don't they? These could be connected to insecticutors that would teach the little boogers!

 

[Pietros]

GaryMo,

I agree completely, how can a fixed fire, supplied through a fused connection unit be a portable appliance?

It should and will be part of my report however I'm going to code it as a 2.

Thanks again.

 

[GaryMo]

It should and will be part of my report however I'm going to code it as a 2.

Good decision.

 

[ericmark]

If they are fixed then can't really palm them off as portable appliance and to me very simple 12mm at 80mm long horizontal (IP2X or IPXXB) and 1 mm at 100mm long vertical (IP4X or IPXXD) and if I can stick a 1 mm thick piece of wire 100mm long from the top and touch any live part it has failed and I would de-commission it. If fed by a fused spur I would remove fuse and put tie wrap through the hole in fuse carrier so it is blatantly obvious it has not been stolen but intentional removed.
If they re-fit the fuse once you leave that's up to them. And the IPXXD reg 416.2.2 has been in force for well over 10 years so they have had plenty of time to upgrade.
And I would Class it as Code 2 as you have to do something silly to cause danger i.e. use a 100mm long 1mm thick piece of wire. But with school children and the fact that this is no new regulation and they must have failed to correct it at last PIR maybe a Code 1 is warranted?
As far as I can see only the size of the incoming fuse, locked doors etc is Code 3. You are paid to investigate and only when prevented from being able to investigate should a Code 3 be raised this could be they will not let you turn off power etc. But if there is a fault then 1,2, and 4 are only options.
Eric

 

[RF Lighting]

Code 1?

Don't be so stupid

 

[ericmark]

I see RF Lighting says Code 1 and thinks anything else is stupid but reading the BPG4 I would consider Code 2 the more likely option. Can't be Code 3 as you can investigate and the rule has been in force so long I would not consider Code 4 either.
Eric

 

[RF Lighting]

No, I was saying there is no way on Gods earth that this could ever be deemed as a code 1 fault

 

[GaryMo]

No, I was saying there is no way on Gods earth that this could ever be deemed as a code 1 fault

I couldn't agree more. The only way this could be the case would be if the heater casing was damaged in such a way that live terminals or connectors were accessible to touch.

Code 2.