Open valley - slate and a half?

[woody07]

Looking for advice on the correct use of slate and a half in an open valley.

If we use slate and a half it gradually finds its way into the centre of the roof or would leave a straight join with the slate above. Using regular slates (20"x10") means there are some small cuts with not much room for nailing.

Which is the correct method?

 

[RedHerring]

I'm not a slater or even a roofer, or even a builder, just a DIYer but having recently completed re-roofing our house in France I can only tell you what I learned from experience and looking how other rooves/roofs had been done.
Seen here:

Sattelite dishes up first

• RedHerring
• 21 Jan 2010
• 2

I more or less started in the valleys/hips and worked out from there towards the middle. So all the slates for the valleys/hips were more or less cut the same (alternating obviously). Once I'd worked away from the valley/hip a few slates I then made adjustments in slate widths in order to arrive at a reasonably symetric arrangement.

It takes a bit of working out on the adjustments and thinking a few courses ahead, bit like playing chess really.

 

[datarebal]

Slate and a half in a valley should not end up in the middle of the roof.
they are used to minimise very small cuts. so are actually at the end the course.
cut sizes will vary slowly diminishing or increasing as you slate up the valley.
Generally if you try to use the same size cut all the way up the valley then it will come back and bite you in the arse elsewhere..

line the roof out carefully,

http://www.mikerickman.co.uk/slate_valley_c.htm

 

[tudorroofing]

You should always use a slate & half where needed you will get a better fix and bond than using smaller cuts, as once the scaffold is down you dont really want to be going back on the roof for repairs.

Trust me its worth spending the extra

 

[Leadman]

Personally i never use slate and half in the valleys because somewhere along the line, once you start using them there will be a bond on bond point!(One slate in line with the slate above) slate and half should only be used on the verge so you dont have a slither of slate there.
Think of it like this, on an old slate roof, would you find a slate and half in the valley? no because they didnt have any!
Cheers
Dave

 

[tudorroofing]

so slate and halfs are useless then cos they didnt use them on verges in the old days?

Simple as this and take my word for it any cut less than 150mm you must use a slate and a half to achieve the best fixing/bond, but if thats too technical to do without messing up your bonds just put silly little cuts in .

looks great and they wont fall out

 

[Leadman]

With out getting in to a slagging match tudor i never said they were useless, i said Personally i never use slate and half in a valley!, i agree on the verge the cut shouldnt be less than 6" and thats why i use them there.
I was pointing out the fact that they didnt have slate and a half years ago.
Also they are priced at 2 1/2 times the price of a normal slate(never could work that one out!) so the cost also puts me off.
Cheers
Dave
The photo's are of some work i did recently.

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• Leadman
• 23 Feb 2010
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• Leadman
• 23 Feb 2010
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• Leadman
• 23 Feb 2010
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• Leadman
• 23 Feb 2010
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• Leadman
• 23 Feb 2010
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[tudorroofing]

were not going to agree LOL
neat roofing by the way,.......... but..........
it is spec by all manufacturers to use slate & halfs for valleys, i know this you should have a read up coz although your roofs are neat they are wrong technically
PS Im not a DIYer you wouldnt get a guarantee from marley with them valley cuts[/img]

 

[tudorroofing]

were not going to agree LOL
neat roofing by the way,.......... but..........
it is spec by all manufacturers to use slate & halfs for valleys, i know this you should have a read up coz although your roofs are neat they are wrong technically
PS Im not a DIYer you wouldnt get a guarantee from marley with them valley cuts[/img]

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• tudorroofing
• 24 Feb 2010
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• tudorroofing
• 24 Feb 2010
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• tudorroofing
• 24 Feb 2010
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• tudorroofing
• 24 Feb 2010
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• tudorroofing
• 24 Feb 2010
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[Roofer]

I'm a little confused tudorroofing.

Those pics you've posted also show valleys done without slate-and-halves. Is it your work?

 

[noseall]

Personally i never use slate and half in the valleys because somewhere along the line, once you start using them there will be a bond on bond point

I know exactly what you mean Leadman as this can happen with hips too.

Tudorroofing has a little bit learn me thinks.

There are instances where a tile 'n' half will work so long as there are too few courses or the bond allows it to happen. Once the bond runs out, straight nick starts to occur.

 

[vancleef]

Noseall of course you can use slate and a halfs on hips as the last slate on the course going into the hip as the hip runs into the roof as the valley runs out of the roof.In the hip there are no courses continuing above and beyond your slate and a halfs.

You do not use slate and a halfs on the valley because depending on the pitch of both sides of the valley, if the cuts are getting larger as your getting further up the valley and you start using slate and a halfs and they're not big enough you'll eventually need small cuts with them which will cause the course above to become bond on bond.

When your cutting into the valley if your for instance using 16 x 10's you can take an inch or two off the previous slate on the same course to increase the size of your valley cut but you must check the side cover(at least 3 inch) on the slate above and under making sure the water doesn't find it's way to the nail bellow.

 

[noseall]

Edited:

Button malfunction!

 

[noseall]

I was referring to a bonnet tiled (not slate) hip that is bonded in such a way that is out of kilter with the tile bond. If you start using tile n halfs, eventually you will end up with straight nick.

It is better to let the bonnet hip tiles dictate the bond (even if it ends up just under half bond) then use tile n halfs further in the roof away from the hip.

 

[noseall]

You do not use slate and a halfs on the valley because depending on the pitch of both sides of the valley, if the cuts are getting larger as your getting further up the valley.....

What makes you think that the hip pitch is any different to the valley pitch in any case?