Orange Bath Water - F&E Tank Overflow Going into CWST?

[NetTechie]

Moved into a new house a little over 4 weeks ago and the plumbing here is driving me nuts!!! It's an open vent system, with a cold water storage tank and an F&E tank placed above it. Boiler is a Gloworm Ultimate 40FF, which has been plumbed as a gravity HW and Pumped CH with 4 pipes to the boiler.

Main issue right now is the hot water and cold for bath and showers is yellow / orange coloured. First I thought the HW cylinder coil may have punctured, but after sticking my head up in the loft and looking at the cold storage tank, it was full of orange water. I had only just drained and cleaned this tank 2 weeks prior. So I drained and flushed the tank and the HW cylinder again, drained some of the CH water to bring the F&E tank level down and re-adjusted the ball valve so the water stops just above the feed.

So far so good, until I went to take a shower tonight and noticed the water was a bit yellow again. So after washing up, had to jump up in the loft again and the cold tank has gone a bit yellow, clearly overflowing from the F&E tank.

So my questions are:

1. Is this correct? Should the F&E overflow be sent to the CWST or was this just laziness on the installers part?
2. There is an overflow for the CWST going out of the loft, 22mm pipe sticking out of the eaves. Should I connect the F&E overflow to this pipe so it just overflows out of the house?
3. The F&E tank is rust coloured orange and always very hot with steam coming off it. It's an old round tank with no lid as per current byelaw, but has insulation around the tank. I had drained the CH and cleaned out 3 inches of sludge from the tank with a wet vac a couple of weeks ago and fitted a magna clean. Should the tank be this colour and with so much hot water?

I've attached some images of the system and the colour of the CWST before draining yesterday.

What on earth is wrong with this system and what is the best way forward? We are planning a complete renovation and extension in the next year or so, so any fixes should take that into account as we will rip out the entire system and install something new, not sure if it will be air source / ground source heat pump or traditional boiler but need an economical solution right now.

 

[Elkato531]

1. Is this correct? Should the F&E overflow be sent to the CWST or was this just laziness on the installers part?

Certainly not correct. Each cistern should have its own overflow to the outside. You can combine them together to sort your immediate problem.

3. The F&E tank is rust coloured orange and always very hot with steam coming off it.

F&E should not be hot although its common for it to be discoloured. Sounds like the system is pumping over. This is usually caused by a blockage or restriction around the cold feed/vent connection. Needs sorting asap or the system will rapidly sludge up.

 

[dilalio]

Seen it done a few times.
Its not right, but it was done!

Probably as an indicator that the f&e is pumping over! Not good to be bathing or brushing your teeth in it mind!

 

[NetTechie]

Certainly not correct. Each cistern should have its own overflow to the outside. You can combine them together to sort your immediate problem.

F&E should not be hot although its common for it to be discoloured. Sounds like the system is pumping over. This is usually caused by a blockage or restriction around the cold feed/vent connection. Needs sorting asap or the system will rapidly sludge up.

Thanks, how would I even start to find a blockage in the system?

I installed a magnaclean a couple of weeks ago which has been collecting all the magnite, I also added Sentinel X800 rapid cleaner about 3 weeks ago and drained after a week, then added X400 into the system, which I must have showered in.....yuck.

There is one radiator in the extension, where the pipes have been put in to the concrete floor, the heat output from this is very low. The pipes are the lowest in the entire system and I have a new rad to replace that with, could this be the culprit?

One more thing, 3 of the rads on the first floor fill up with air every couple of days and I have to bleed them out, could this be related?

 

[Elkato531]

You can test with a magnet. Magnets don't stick to copper but they are attracted to the magnetite sludge that builds up inside the pipes. If you have areas where the magnet sticks to the pipe, its an indication of problems.

 

[dilalio]

@DIYnot
What is going on

Having real problems posting anything
Can not use punctuation marks or attach screenshot of issue

 

[Madrab]

First thing they did wrong - the Cold water storage cistern (CWSC) should always be higher than the F&E cistern, that's to ensure that the CH system water would never flow back into and contaminate the wholesome water in the CWSC, if the cylinder coil ever pinholed, that's gravity system design 1'o'1.

In your case the F&E cistern is higher and overflow is piped into the CWSC, which unfortunately is doubly bad.

You need to check, when the CH system is running, whether the system is pumping the system water up and out of the expansion pipe that should curve over the the top and into the F&E cistern.

 

[NetTechie]

First thing they did wrong - the Cold water storage cistern (CWSC) should always be higher than the F&E cistern, that's to ensure that the CH system water would never flow back into and contaminate the wholesome water in the CWSC, if the cylinder coil ever pinholed, that's gravity system design 1'o'1.

In your case the F&E cistern is higher and overflow is piped into the CWSC, which unfortunately is doubly bad.

You need to check, when the CH system is running, whether the system is pumping the system water up and out of the expansion pipe that should curve over the the top and into the F&E cistern.

Hey Rob, sounds about right, I remember my parents house as a child and the F&E tank was placed lower, makes sense.

There is no water coming out of the curved expansion pipe whilst the CH is running.

I ended up flushing the entire system again today and placed a cover over the CWSC and moved the overflow pipe in to a large bucket. When the heating is on, there is a constant drip coming from the F&E overflow. Off I went to grab some parts to combine the overflows out of the property, went up to the loft to fit and the cover I placed has water on it. After inspecting, looks like the F&E tank has a leak, so the whole thing needs replacing and setting up correctly.

 

[dilalio]

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This is just a test to see if my posting problems have been sorted!!

I couldn't write something and post it

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Anything other than letters were an issue!!!

 

[dilalio]

Seems to be OK now! Lol.