Outdoor lights and sockets - same or separate circuits?

[SJRSJR]

Hello

I won't be doing the work myself, just adding to an ever growing list of things for an electrician to do.

I'd like to have outdoor sockets and lighting and I have an RCD protected ring circuit in the utility room which only has the washing machine and tumble dryer on it, no other sockets.

I'm not planning anything major for the garden, just some lights and somewhere to play music, maybe run a hedge trimmer from time to time. Am I right in thinking that you could add a 13A fused spur before adding weatherproof outdoor sockets on a radial circuit? And then the garden lights could plug into one of the sockets ? If so, is it better to use armoured cable or run normal cable in plastic conduit?

Or should it have its own consumer unit like in a garage and the lights should be separate from the sockets? Thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

Am I right in thinking that you could add a 13A fused spur before adding weatherproof outdoor sockets on a radial circuit?

Yes, but it wouldn't be a radial; it will be a spur from the ring.
That which everyone calls a spur is a Fused Connection Unit; the cable is the spur be it fused or not.

And then the garden lights could plug into one of the sockets ?

Could do.

If so, is it better to use armoured cable or run normal cable in plastic conduit?

If you mean along the wall, then suitable outdoor flex would be alright.

Or should it have its own consumer unit like in a garage and the lights should be separate from the sockets?

No, that would be silly for what is already protected by a 13A fuse.

 

[SJRSJR]

Yes, but it wouldn't be a radial; it will be a spur from the ring.
That which everyone calls a spur is a Fused Connection Unit; the cable is the spur be it fused or not.

If you mean along the wall, then suitable outdoor flex would be alright.

Most of it can be clipped to the wall but there's a section that could run under some flower beds. If running in conduit was okay, I could get it in position ready for the cable to be fed through.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Most of it can be clipped to the wall but there's a section that could run under some flower beds. If running in conduit was okay, I could get it in position ready for the cable to be fed through.

If being buried where it is possible that damage might occur then armoured will probably be simplest.

Plastic conduit is no good for protection.
Proper 3mm. thick steel conduit would be necessary which is why armoured is used.

 

[SJRSJR]

Thanks, I thought that might be the case, makes sense.

Just reading up a bit more. If the spur is protected by a 13A FCU could 1.5mm SWA be used, rather than 2.5mm, even if it goes to sockets?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Just reading up a bit more. If the spur is protected by a 13A FCU could 1.5mm SWA be used, rather than 2.5mm, even if it goes to sockets?

Yes, you could use 1.5mm².

 

[ebee]

Yes, but it wouldn't be a radial; it will be a spur from the ring.
That which everyone calls a spur is a Fused Connection Unit; the cable is the spur be it fused or not.

NO I disagree with part of that.
It is a radial circuit but yes you are correct is a spur from the ring too.
It is a radial circuit because te circuit origin is an OPD as per section 2 definition BS7671 of a curcuit, Just being pedantic though, I thought it my turn this time !

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is a radial circuit but yes you are correct is a spur from the ring too.
It is a radial circuit because te circuit origin is an OPD as per section 2 definition BS7671 of a curcuit, Just being pedantic though, I thought it my turn this time !

Fair enough.

I tend to agree but other regulations do not consider a fused spur to be a separate circuit.

 

[ebee]

Fair enough.

I tend to agree but other regulations do not consider a fused spur to be a separate circuit.

Well yes too.
If you consider that a Ring Final Circuit (or a radial Final Circuit) is a FINAL Circuit but then it becomes the "Distribution Circuit " for the Fused Spur it seems a little contradictory to Logical English doesn`t it.
In reality it is both I suppose .
Strange World innit? LOL

 

[EFLImpudence]

Well yes too.
If you consider that a Ring Final Circuit (or a radial Final Circuit) is a FINAL Circuit but then it becomes the "Distribution Circuit " for the Fused Spur it seems a little contradictory to Logical English doesn`t it.

I think it is the definition of a circuit that is not logical.

In reality it is both I suppose .

Are you thinking that what the OP is doing is notifiable as a new circuit?

Strange World innit? LOL

No, just the people.

 

[JohnW2]

Fair enough. ... I tend to agree but other regulations do not consider a fused spur to be a separate circuit.

Indeed - but if one does consider a fused spur as being a 'separate' circuit, then that opens up a can of worms as regards notifiability ... since I don't think that many really believe that adding a fused spur to an existing circuit is (or should be!) intended to be notifiable (it was, after all, one of the few things that was explicitly NOT notifiable prior to the dramatic relaxation of the rules {in England} in 2013!)!

 

[ebee]

Are you thinking that what the OP is doing is notifiable as a new circuit?

Not in my book no but unfortunately it could be considered as such

 

[pete01]

A spur is obviously part of an existing circuit not a new circuit.

 

[ebee]

Are you thinking that what the OP is doing is notifiable as a new circuit?

No I was not considering that view at that time.
However, yes like you I can see the possibility of that occurring I`m afraid.
I suppose that you and I and others can perceive that possibility.
I`m sure we have both noticed some extremes folk invent, in their minds if not in deeds, to circumnavigate notifications around Part P just in the same way that people who have the means to employ methods to evade tax or patents/copyright will think up elaborate methods of invention .
So, strictly according to BS 7671 its the fuse etc that proves it is a circuit and some folks will go to great lengths to sneak in or sneak out notification..
Its amazing what human beings can come up with, strange world or strange people I cant decide LOL

 

[ebee]

A spur is obviously part of an existing circuit not a new circuit.

Part of an existing circuit or a new circuit or a sub circuit or a distribution circuit or any combination thereof?

You could envisage your own home as one circuit or tens, even hundreds, of circuits.
To adequately cover all aspects from all angles the regs books would become twice as thick and twice as expensive!