Overcoming RCD discrimination

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I have a problem.... of my own making in overcoming RCD discrimination

My OH rents a building used as a nursery and she recently had a sizable wooden outbuilding installed as a kind of outside play classroom.

The owners told her they were okay for me to install electrics although not 17th (waiting for new employer to arrange 17th)

Had a choice of 2 1ph sub-main DBs, 1 was old MEM, and 1 was newer split load Hager with RCD protection on both sides.

Both easily had room for a sub mains cable to out-building, both physically and by calculation.

MEM board was a non starter due to parts unavailable, and building owner said no to changing the DB.

Was reluctant to use split load board due to the rcd tripping and taking out a mix of lights and power to other rooms which at certain times of the year pose a greater risk due to low light levels.

However, my only viable option was the split load for reasons above.

Decided on Contactum DB, via approx. 40m 3core 10mm armoured protected by Hagar 63a MCB.

Split circuits down into
1 standard 100a main switch
1 6a 30mA RCBO lighting (4 main lights)
1 6a 30mA RCBO Lighting (6 external LED floodlight)
2 16a 30MA RCBO for a single 2kw heater on each.
1 20a 30mA RCBO for 1 Radial (4 points)

Armoured cable was earthed both ends AND (Perhaps wastefully) also by 3rd core.

No Water or metal in with building so no bonding.

My electrical tools are kept at work which includes testers etc. which I can get during next week but after doing the basic sub-main cable install today, using my personal multi-meter, did a basic continuity test and turned on.

Basic tests done, put in a quick radial socket to provide a light to finish trunking, wiring and later testing.

Pressed the test button on RCBO for temp radial and damn RCD in hagar DB went out.

Was always aware of risk running off splitload RCD protected DB but hoped I would be one of the lucky ones and the RCBO would trip 1st. Wasn't just unlucky as tried 4 times with same result.

Any suggestions on how to overcome this with limited expense that would comply with the 17th.
 
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When you say split load - do you mean one side is NOT protected by RCD?

Or do you mean all circuits are protected with two RCDs?
 
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EFL - The Hager DB I took the supply from is split load with RCD protection on both sides.

PRENTICE - The SWA is protected by the 63A MCB from a spare way in the Hager DB, which unfortunately is still protected by its RCD
 
Providing space permits .... Bolt a 63A switchfuse onto the side of the existing DB via way of galv coupler and bushes, loop a supply off the DB incomming feed to supply it.
 
The main incoming feed to the Hager DB it is a whooping 25mm so it maxes out the terminals in the DB, the possibility of moving this 25mm armoured cable is practically nil too looking at how its been installed.

Obviously the switch fuse idea would protect the new cable against overcurrent, but is there a requirement for protecting it by an RCD too???

The reality is faults should not exist, and protective devices in healthy circuits rarely do, and if it did happen the RCD in the Hager board will operate, but knowing the RCBO is unlikely to trigger 1st feels sloppy and less than ideal :(

Obviously the contactum RCBO is less sensitive than Hagar RCB, Could it be possibly overcome by fitting a hager 63a RCD within its own 2 way DB adjacent to either the Hager DB at the supply end, or at the end of the armoured prior to the new contactum board where staff within this room could reset it.
The just change the 5 purchased RCBOs for MCBs.
Am working of the theory the Hager devices would have almost identical characteristics and MIGHT then trip in the correct order, or at least locally.

The other downside would be yet another short circuit device in line.
 
The SWA does not require RCD protection, if you are taking on work likes this you really need to get your head into BS7671,
It seems you have carried out unnecessary work and then introduced a problem!
 
Pressed the test button on RCBO for temp radial and damn RCD in hagar DB went out.

That's surprising, as test buttons normally work by passing a current from L on one side of the sensor to N on the other side - NOT by passing a current to E (and many/most RCBOs don't even have an E connection, so they have to work this way). So the upstream RCD doesn't see an imbalance and don't trip.

I've just looked at the Contactum website and I can't see earth wires on the RCBO pictures, though they are not very clear.

Is this really what happened to you?
 
Think as they are white and pretty thin they may just not show in pics but they are there.

Yes, just to clarify, pressing the test button on the contactum RCBO tripped the hager RCD.
 
That's surprising, as test buttons normally work by passing a current from L on one side of the sensor to N on the other side - NOT by passing a current to E (and many/most RCBOs don't even have an E connection, so they have to work this way). So the upstream RCD doesn't see an imbalance and don't trip.
Indeed - and it does seem rather odd. Even when RCBOs have functional earths, I wouldn't really expect that to be used to create a test fault current.

As we discussed recently, it only seems to be RCDs used 'peripherally' (RCD sockets, FCUs or adapters) that the test button creates a 'fault to earth' - and it was speculated (seemingly quite feasibly) that the reason for this could be that the button is thereby testing for the presence of an adequate earth connection at the ('peripheral') site of the RCD as well as testing the functionality of the RCD itself. However, that's not really an issue for RCDs which are 'centrally located' (e.g. in CUs).

Kind Regards, John
 
Endecotp, haha, exactly that one just a different size..... even ordered from the same company :).... with a white earth cable.

John, Really sorry have read your post several times but cannot quite understand what it is your saying :(

Feel a little embarrassed if honest, my day to day job is not install but prison maintenance,
Fire, light, power, electromechanics, cctv, motors, and commercial kitchen equipment etc are my bread and butter. Installs are few and far between and RCBOs didn't exist when I started, never gave it thought the test button actually operated differently to an RCD.

So, if an RCBO tests Live to neutral....... why the earth wire?? to protect the device itself??? or am I way off the mark here?
 

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