Painting Ornate Plaster Ceiling

[Pewit]

I moved to Aus from the UK to be with my partner last year and, after 6 months of work, we've managed to sell our 5-bed house and are looking for an apartment in Sydney.

My partner and I have a fortunate choice between two apartments in 30s art-deco blocks.

Option 1
Is a 1 bed 75sq M restored flat with galley kitchen and bathroom and great views over Sydney harbour that needs no work.

Option 2
Is an unrestored 150sq M penthouse flat with 3 (small) bedrooms, small bathroom, reasonable kitchen and views of both Sydney harbour and the bridge from the balcony.

The downside is it has ornate plater ceilings in all rooms all of which have peeling paint. The plan is to knock 2 bedrooms together and steal some of this additional space to create a shower recess for the bathroom and a wardrobe/store area. Also knock down the dividing wall between the bedroom passageway and the living room to create more space. It also needs a new kitchen and bathroom.

We've had a quote for the whole job of AU$150K (~£75K) which we think is on the high side - especially as the builder just wanted to put a false ceiling in all rooms (much easier for him than stripping the ceiling, I'd suggest).

See plans and photos below

Painting Questions:
1. What are the options for successfully stripping the old paint from the plaster without damaging it.
2. Is it a DIY job or should we get in an expert

Non-Painting Questions:
3. Given that the ceiling is lath and plaster, is it possible to put halogen downlights through it without creating too much damage?

I have to persuade my partner that option 2 is a good idea and that we can survive the mess involved

Thanks in advance

Paul

Photos and plans

Ceiling Photo

Ceiling Detail

Existing layout (NOT TO SCALE)

Modified layout (NOT TO SCALE)

 

[joe-90]

Don't you mean £75? You can probably get the old paint off if you try various strippers to see which works the best. If all else fails simply skim it.

 

[Pewit]

The K in £75K is short for "thousand" - See Wilkipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix

"The symbol "K" is often used informally to mean a multiple of (a) thousand, so one may talk of "a 40K salary" (40 000), or the Y2K problem."

 

[joe-90]

Yes I know what it means, but at £250 per ceiling - how can you possibly get to £75,000?? Is this a wind-up?

 

[Shytalkz]

Oh dear....as you haven't made many posts on this forum P, a word of advice: don't try to teach Joe to suck eggs. He doesn't like it.

 

[confidentincompetent]

The peelimg paint looks sadly like modern paint has been applied over whitwash/ distemper. whitwash dries with a dusty finish and modern paint wont stay on. Soo afraid the ceilings need a good scrape then working a small area at a time soak with hot water and sugar soap, when whats on turns gungey enough scoop it off with a 4" scraper wipe over to reveal original plaster, sponge off with cold clear water at each section, the cornice will take a bit longerr. I sometimes skimp a bit here and apply a stabilising solution, then emulsion as normall.

Not sure if there is anything to seal whitewash in prep for skimming??

Lots of work but a view of the harbour and the bridge Hmmmm.

 

[Pewit]

Yes I know what it means, but at £250 per ceiling - how can you possibly get to £75,000?? Is this a wind-up?

The builder has quoted for the whole job (despite being asked to break it down) - as they do. So £75,000 is correct.

I think that skimming the horizontal sections may work - provided you can stabilise the current surface - but I tend to agree that it looks like modern paint over old paint which is a bad mix.

However, it's still going to be a pain to work over the ornate sections to show the detail as I suspect there are multiple layers of old paint there too. From what I have read chemical strippers combined with a steam gun seems to be a good solution to the problem.

The builders' job list is below (my comments). We plan to get a couple more quotes and a full independent survey done to check for defects.

Demolish Bathroom (I can do that in 5 mins with a sledge hammer!)
Full Bathroom Renovation (I can do that too)
Allowance for p.c items $5k (probably OK)
New ceilings to Apartment or repair existing ones (needs detail)
New electrical wiring (OK - but when was it last done?)
New plumbing to bathroom and kitchen (OK)
Down lights and switches (I could do this but can't because of Aus regs)
Demolish wall to Living room/hallway and make good (OK)
Demolish wall to back bedroom and make good (OK)
Demolish existing Kitchen (I can do that in 5 mins with a sledge hammer!)
Allowance for new kitchen , benchtops and splashbacks $20k (ceasar stone and glass ) (will get additional quotes for this - probably part DIY and get a fitter to provide/install the benchtop)
Allowance for appliances for Kitchen $10k (I can do better than that)
Sand and Polish all floors (OK)
New tiling to Kitchen (I can do that)
Render and white set walls where required (I'm hopeless at plastering but I can paint)
Painting walls , ceilings doors etc (I'll paint)
Rubbish removal (Yes please)
Council permits (for building works only)
No allowance for d.a plans or construction certificate for council (could be expensive).

We've found out that although the building has a Heritage listing (by the local council) another apartment has knocked down the wall we're thinking of knocking down (Although I'm still investigating if that applies to the bedroom walls too).

 

[Pewit]

I know that Aussies are more regulated than the Germans (I lived there too) but I found this:

"Did you know that it if you want to paint a wall and need to unscrew a power outlet or light switch, you cannot do it legally in any Australian state? Nor can you replace a light switch or power outlet, install a dimmer or ceiling fan. Nor anything else which involves any form of electrical installation, repair or modification."

(oops I better take down the ceiling fan!)

And yet Australia has the second highest levels of annual elec­trical fatalities (varying between 2.5 and 4 deaths per million of population). The country with the lowest electrical fatalities (by a huge margin, varying from year to year between 0.5 and less than 0.1 deaths per million of population), is The Netherlands, and this is one of the many countries that allow householder DIY wiring).

Now Northern Ireland is an extremely turbulent society. Yet by the German and New Zealand comparative studies, Northern Ireland is the only country with higher levels of electrical fatalities than Australia! The Australian statistics reflect the gross irresponsibility of the great Aussie tradition of allowing powerful vested interest groups to "regulate" themselves.

Doh!

 

[joe-90]

I lived in Oz for a few years. If you buy a switch it doesn't tell you how to fit it - only that it is illegal and to get a registered sparkie. Another oddity is that plumbers can't fix drains - you need a drainer.

Anyway, that quote seems at least £20K too high to me, but Sydney prices will be London prices.

Bet you live somewhere near Drumoyne? Can't remember how to spell it. We lived in Guildford and Ashfield.

 

[Pewit]

No, we currently live at N Avoca here, 50 miles N. of Sydney - which is the one we've sold.

We're looking in Darlinghurst which has lots of Art Deco blocks of flats (Units)

 

[joe-90]

Why you want to move into the city is a mystery to me. My brother lives in Umina. When I lived in Sydney, Darlinghurst was a complete slum full of junkies. Wish I'd bought something there way back then.

 

[Pewit]

Main reason for moving is social life and (mainly) work - commuting form the central coast to Sydney is a nightmare - it's like commuting from Reading to London with a Motorway to Maidenhead - a 2-lane bypass to Slough and then going round the South Circular for the rest of the journey. The alternative is the train which is as reliable as the old BR trains form the 60s with the same rolling stock.

Darlinghurst still has junkies - but then again so does Soho - yet both are now very fashionable.

Why you want to move into the city is a mystery to me. My brother lives in Umina. When I lived in Sydney, Darlinghurst was a complete slum full of junkies. Wish I'd bought something there way back then.

 

[Pewit]

Our offer for the penthouse property was accepted, subject to a favourable building inspection report.

The building report summary was OK:
"Our inspection indicated that the building generally was considered to be structurally acceptable. We found the building to be in average condition for its age and suburb but has been poorly maintained in recent years...."

But the bad news was the ceilings:
"The ceilings throughout are affected by a prolonged history of water entry causing significant damage to the ceilings and paintwork."

However, they illustrate this with only 2 small areas where there has been signs of obvious water damage in the living room (<20cm round). Although they make the point that the ceiling in bedroom 2 has been completely replaced at some time.

"It is our opinion that the ceilings are beyond repair and warrant complete replacement. Further, it is highly likely that some degree of kalsomine was used during the 1930’s and this may be a significant contributing factor to ongoing blistering of paint."

I can understand this recommendation to replace the ceilings if the ceiling was bowed or showing signs that the plaster had separated from the laths but it seems OK to me - despite the peeling paint which is symptomatic of mixing kalsomine with modern paints.

If the entire ceilings have to be replaced it could be very expensive so I'm afraid a false plasterboard ceiling may be the only option - much as we'd like to keep the original features.

According to the report, the cause of all the problems is the state of the roof above the apartment::
"There have been varying repairs to the roof. Due to the condition of the ceiling there is evidence that substantial deterioration has occurred to the roof tiles and ongoing general patching and replacement of individually affected tiles has been undertaken. The tiles are now at an age where they will warrant complete replacement to ensure watertightness."

So now we have to wait for the strata report to find out what funds are available in the building fund to repair the roof (if any) and also if they'd be prepared to do it - if not I think we'll probably walk away.

What would you do?

 

[joe-90]

In my opinion a ceiling that is structurally sound doesn't need replacement.

It sounds like a bit of a money pit. I'd be asking for a very substantial reduction in price, if it were me. Remember, the main thing is not what you are willing to accept as OK to live there, but sooner or later you will sell and that means another survey and that survey will go against you getting a top price.

Personally, I'd go for something newer.

Nice places at Ashfield, Summer Hill, Burwood etc.

Maybe even the North Shore?