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Papering horizontally

Discussion in 'Decorating and Painting' started by Deansplit, 6 Apr 2012.

  1. vibrobullit407

    vibrobullit407

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    It's fashionable now to have stripes hung horizontally at the moment. It's not that the paper needs to be hung this way, it's down to how the person wants it hung for aesthetic reasons.
     
  2. TheDec

    TheDec

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    25 years of decorating Emily, you once told me that was 40+, where on earth did those 15 years.

    Dec
     
  3. emilybronte

    emilybronte

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    Where on earth did those 15 years WHAT? Please finish your sentences. And if you mean where did they go, I can't be bothered to embark on a philosophical discussion wth you about the relativity of time. You're not good in discussions. It just feels like a Monty Python 5 minute argument, but less fun.

    25 years seriously decorating as an adult.

    40 since childhood - when I started learning how.

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. TheDec

    TheDec

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    Nice.

    Dec
     
  5. emilybronte

    emilybronte

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    That's me! :)
     
  6. dcdec

    dcdec

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    Its NOT about the physical properties of the paper, its the tension created. When the paper dries it pulls tight over the substrate like a skin over a drum. This creates a pull throughout the entirety of the wall coverings life. By applying the two papers in opposite directions you offset the risk of lifting.

    I really cant think of a way to make it any clearer, there is an article that explains it all very well but i cant find it.
    All i can add is this method is recommended by manufacturers and its also the advice in the P&D manual which is the most authoritative publication on painting and decorating available.
     
  7. emilybronte

    emilybronte

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    Then it IS about the physical properties of the paper! The phenomenon you are describing would be more of a problem during the drying process. Once the glue has dried the paper does not continue to shrink or expand. It doesn't when I hang it, anyway!

    Neither assertion really helps your case, unfortunately.

    I am sure you are correct in that. However I have never known wallpaper lift months or years after it was pasted because the lining was not hung horizontally.

    I think we must agree to differ on this. :)
     
  8. dcdec

    dcdec

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    The physical properties of the paper do not change once hung if you've booked it for the correct time it will neither expand or contract on the wall.

    But sure, you do it your way and i'll do it mine
     
  9. oldgreymouse

    oldgreymouse

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    Sorry to add a few years Emily, :LOL: but over 35 years ago, my teacher used to get me, as his trainee, to hold yards and yards of wet sticky lining paper while being 'taught' how to line walls horizontally.
    We would do 2 walls at a time, me releasing the paper while he hung it on the wall balanced on narrow planks, (no elf and safety in them days!) at the corner he would slit with a sharp knife any out of tru wall before we set off down the second wall.
    8 Lengths were all that were needed for an average room at 4 widths high.
    I have to say though, that was the easy job, the hardest was cutting the salve edge off the complete length of the roll of top paper, you soon learned how to hold a pair of scissors :rolleyes:
    PS. Trainees were not allowed to do top paper!!
     
  10. emilybronte

    emilybronte

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    Ha! It sounds like the bloody workhouse.

    I was also taught to do concertina folds and horizontal lining, etc., when I trained but having successfully experimented in my own house I soon came to the conclusion that, like the old tradition of sewing children into their underwear over the winter, it was generally unnecessary!
     
  11. opps

    opps

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    I must admit that I only line up and down. That said, I lay no claim to being an an expert paper hanger. I line a lot but seldom hang paper and shy away from "specialist" papers (largely through lack of hanging experience).

    I believe that the practice of cross lining has it's origins in the use of stretched canvas over walls as a base rather than plaster. These used animal based sizes to achieve a taut finish. In time, machined lining papers were applied over them before the finish paper. These papers had a distinct grain and displayed relative expansion properties not dissimilar to real wood.

    To maintain equal tension, cross lining was essential. Such practices are still common place when laminating woods.

    I am not however convinced that cross lining is always quite as important now as it once was. We have lining papers made from finer pulp and a wider selection of paste types, pva, cellulose, wheat starch etc.

    I know people that suggest that the tension issue is so important when they line that they stop 25mm short of all edges. The same people also only cross line with papers of equal thickness and will only use the PVA premixes.

    Often I find paper (hung by others) that lifts slightly at architraves etc whilst the lining paper is sound, I tend to put this down to the fact that the architraves were painted after lining and that the oil based paints may not have cured sufficiently prior to the final paper being hung.

    Anecdotally I have not had any problems lining vertically but I have to concede that I may well have just been lucky.
     
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  12. oldgreymouse

    oldgreymouse

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    I think opps, that you have covered all one needs to know about the reasons for cross lining and they are clear and precise for anyone who needs to know.

    I still paperhang a lot, as being from the slightly older generation, my clients still like wallpaper and with no disrespect for the younger decs out there, many do not know how to hang paper so either overprice a job so they don't get it, or do a site visit and disappear muttering the estimate will be in the post.

    Now I do not ever claim to be a pro and I am willing to learn new ideas from others, but my years do give me an edge on having seen lots of products over those years. I have hung block printed papers where the colour washes off the pattern if you get it wet, material of 54" wide that has been paper backed for the walls and the client wanted it on the ceiling too!!

    So, to come back to cross lining, we cross lined in the early days because the papers were very thick and much heavier than today. They would pull off lining paper if it was on the same plane so it was never done. ( Plus the paste was crap !!)
    Later on, lining paper was made slightly wider, this was to help the increasing DIY market who wanted to hang newer and lighter papers themselves, but as many had no experience of how to cross line, they were hung in the normal way but being wider, the joins rarely matched.

    PS. I also came across the stretched canvas with a plaster finish. I was working on properties in the 70's up in the West End around Marble Arch.
    The timbers behind the canvas were quite often burnt black from the fires during the war and went in all directions with not one timber being the same length. The walls bounced if you hit them !
    Sorry for rambling on, a little off post :rolleyes:
     
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  13. emilybronte

    emilybronte

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    Don't apologise! It's really interesting.

    Those plaster-on-canvas walls can't have been very soundproof, can they?
     
  14. oldgreymouse

    oldgreymouse

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    You could talk through the walls, (and hear things at night :oops: )
    It was also a devils own job hanging a picture in the right place, it had to hang wherever you found a timber, too far left and too far right!!!
     
  15. opps

    opps

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    Thanks oldgreymouse

    I freely admit that I am in the inexperienced paper hanging bracket, thus I do not discount the validity of the sage advice from DCDCEC and THEDEC, both of whom could teach me more than a thing or two.

    I was unaware that lining paper was originally the same width. I guess that there was no need for it to be wider when running horizontally.

    I have grown up with the wheat starch Solivite pastes and thus never had to endure the older pastes, I did however make the mistake of buying proper sizing once- the client wasn't too happy about the smell after I "boiled" it.

    I do have a client that wants sea grass. I will probably do the prep work/rest of the decorating and get her to find a specialist hanger. :)
     
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