part p - consumer unit. tails, rcd help

[Mista77]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and have tried searching threads for answers but can't find any for my questions. I hope someone can help.

Had work carried out as kitchen fitters would not fit kitchen until electrics had been done. Had quotes and got guy who was NICEIC certified so could self cert Part P (checked on website).

Work done but kitchen fitter's electrician came out and gave list of items unhappy with. I have posted those which are causing me uncertainty and his responses as I know very little about electrics. Is he right?

1.Consumer unit positioned upside down (MK) - response -"not illegal - tight space in position over boiler so best solution without too much work)

2.Main supply should be double insulated brown and blue not old red and black - response - "old are OK. Have put warning sign to state 2 systems used. I did not ask him for a rewire of house"

3. No RCD for kitchen - response - "TNT earthing used in area ???? Not compatible??" When questioned further - " No required unless plugging in externally"

He is coming back in a couple of days and I want to have the right info so I know if he is telling truth.

Thanks in advance

 

[Lectrician]

Regardless of earthing type, there should be 30mA RCD protection to socket outlets
(that may reasonably be expected to be used outdoors) to provide supplementary protection against direct contact.

The tails being red and black is a non issue. A twit would comment on that.

The CU upside down? Some will argue this ok. I think it sucks, and doesn't comply to the manufacturers installation requirements, and hence the BS for that CU is void. I wouldn't like my CU upside down or on it's side............Que the wierdo responses from people that believe this is ok!

 

[Lectrician]

Out of interest - Was your main equipotential earthing to your gas/water/oil etc upgraded/installed/checked?

Far too many sparks change a CU without doing this, and even more kitchen fitters ignore the fact, or do not have a clue.

Did you recieve an Electrical Installation Completion Certificate and subseqantly a cert from your local building control office?

 

[Mista77]

Hi Lectirican,

Thanks for the fast response. The bonding to the water has been done as has the gas (within 600mm of gas meter and before any brach work). But stated that bonding conductor needs to be 10mm but only 6mm used.

There was another query about earthing conductor. The query was that it should be 16mm but only 6mm installed (Ithink?). His response was that it has to be half of the incoming supply which he states is 10mm so 6m is OK.



When you say "BS is void" what do you mean? Sorry, just getting my head around all the new terms.

Thanks

 

[Mista77]

Ref certificate. Work only carried out and finished last week. He said cert will come with the invoice and another from local authority within 28 days?

He seems genuine and has agreed to come back and check through everything. My friend's dad who used to be an electrician reckons he can't be bothered with sorting out the RCD issue as there is most likely a fault elsewhere in the system that would take him too long to track and fix.

 

[Lectrician]

Tails should be a minimum of 16mm - preferably 25mm. 10mm would be rare, but possible on older properties, and should be increased.

The earth has to be half of the size of the tails, but equal in size on tails less than 16mm.

BS - British Standard.

Regs are not retrospective on tail or bond size when you change a CU.

 

[Mista77]

OK. My mistake. Just checked. Tails appear to be 16mm (circumference right?) He appears to have connected 10mm for earthing conductor and 6mm for bonding. Does this souind right?

I guess I will have to insist on RCD. Would it be reasonable to pay more for his time isolating the problem or should this be factored into the price we agreed? Any professional advice appreciated as I don't want to be unfair just want to get the right info to act accordingly.

Thanks again

 

[Lectrician]

Any CU change should address the need for an RCD as required.

Tail size is the cross sectional area - difficult to judge by eye - It's a gift!

If he has installed the bonding, it must be 10mm.

Can you take a photo and post here?

 

[Mista77]

Sure Lectrician.

Give me 10 and I will get them for you. Take of unit, tails and bonding.

Thanks again

 

[Mista77]

unsure how to use BB tags for images. Will try uploading to other server and then add link

 

[RF Lighting]

Click my signature for info on uploading pictures

 

[Mista77]

Thanks RF,


OK 2 pictures: one of CU and one of tails and bonding. Earth on left is earthing conductor and on right (middle of picture is bonding to gas)

 

[Mista77]

by the way that's a 1 penny coin! Don't know if it helps to give you guys a sense of scale.

 

[megawatt]

What a sensible place to put the drain point

TNT earthing used in area

Just to make sure things go with a bang

 

[RF Lighting]

well the tails and main earth are undersized for a start, not to mention the effects of heat from the boiler on the CU.

Oh and its upside down . I cant see any reason what so ever for needing to do this. It's not like the box won't fit the right way up


Oh, and that looks more like a 20p you're holding lol


What does the 1 way wylex CU do? (the one in the bottom left of the pic)

Can you show us a wider pic including the cutout / meter etc, and one with the cover lid (hinged bit) open? (one with the cover off would be ace, but let us knw if you think we could talk you through this)