Part P signed off

[kevin_robson]

We had our house rewired a year or so ago and all signed off with Part P.
I have since done some minor work and will be doing some more - spotlights in the bathroom, refitting bathroom suite and earth bondings, and probably underfloor heating in the near future.

How much would an electrician charge to sign off this additional work (Midlands), and would they have to re-inspect everything or just what extra I have done?

Thanks

 

[Spark123]

It is unlikely that an electrician will put their head on the block and fully sign off work which they have not done, if you are wanting to do the work yourself you need tell your LABC of the notifiable tasks such as the bathroom lighting and underfloor heating before you start, pay their fee etc and let them oversee the part p side of things for you.

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks, but I get more and more confused by Part P by the day.
My understanding was that you could do as much electrical work as you like, as long as it is signed off afterwards by an electrician or your local council.
The book I bought certainly says this.

How is all this working in practice? If a plumber fits a new sink to a bathroom, are they then getting an electrician in to sign it off afterwards? I just cant see this happening myself, though maybe I'm wrong.

If my certificate from the rewire doesn't specifically mention bathroom spotlights, which it doesn't, can I just ignore getting it signed off or will it still be apparant they have been added afterwards?

If as you say an electrician is unlikely to sign off work they haven't done, and I have tiled over floors etc, how would I get a certificate at a later date if I came to sell the house?

 

[Steve]

A council electrical inspector can give you a certificate, but you should have notified them BEFOREHAND - before work started. Not sure if you can do a retrospective part p application.

Some electricians will sign off other people's work too, but they aren't supposed to - if the work goes wrong in future, and burns the house down, killing 4 people, this electrician has put his name to the faulty work, and will be prosecuted for something.

 

[Adam_151]

No one can sign off (legally*) someone elses work as compliant with BR other than a BR inspector, (unless you count a NICEIC QS signing off the work of his qualified, but non QS colleages)

You may havever have an electrician issue test results that LABC may accept (speak to them!)

Or you could get an electrician to do notifable stuff in future, and forget about whats already done, earth bonding is no longer notifable since april this year, not sure if direct replacements of bathroom lights are, certainly the electrician who did ours didn't think so

*of course there will be a few who will do it anyway, probably not the type you'd want to pay to do installation work in your house tho...

 

[Screwed]

I thought as long as it's only moving or adding to an existing ring etc it wasn't notifiable, where as adding in a totally new ring is? (I'm not an electrician as you may tell!)

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks again, but I'm truly baffled.
Its a complete minefield - how do the govenment expect the general public to adhere to all this, when trade people seem to give contradicting advice all the time.

The guy who did my spotlights said he was able to sign them off, and at the end when I asked for the certificate I was told they didn't need signing off, but I dont believe him. He was doing other work though so I ended up letting it lie.

The bonding has been done by myself - are you saying this doesn't need to be inspected and/or signed off since April? If so that would be great, but doesn't seem to fit with what I've read.

Is there anywhere where all this is documented, in a high enough level for mere mortals to understand?

Thanks very much for your help though - my despair isn't directed at you or any of the other helpful souls on here.

 

[Adam_151]

Very informative thread here: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=49116

 

[JackTheCat]

dont make me laugh.
nobody can sign off anybody elses work?
QS do this on a daily basis

 

[kevin_robson]

Sorry, I find it so ambiguous. I've even spoken to mt local building regs department and they dont seem to know any more than me.

Is there a qualified electrician who has been trained on this and knows it inside out that can tell me:

a) if I replace a bathroom suite and hence the earth bonding whether it needs testing
b) If I put GU10 spotlights in a bathroom it needs testing.
c) If I put in warmup underfloor heating in a bathroom this would need sighning off, if I was adding into an existing RCD protected ring

Thanks in advance

 

[Adam_151]

a) if I replace a bathroom suite and hence the earth bonding whether it needs testing

that would NOT be notifiable, of course the bonding should be done properly and ideally its integrity checked with a low resistance ohm meter (I am however not convinced that many people carry out this test, afterall if you have put the clamps on properly then there is not a long that can go wrong)

b) If I put GU10 spotlights in a bathroom it needs testing.

If they are a straight swap for existing units and no extra fixed cabling has to be installed, then its NOT notifiable, however the light should be fitted in accordance with BS7671 and tested and a MWC cert done (test a little more important on this one than the bonding, but quite often it doesn't happen)

c) If I put in warmup underfloor heating in a bathroom this would need sighning off, if I was adding into an existing RCD protected ring

Unless you are replacing existing floor heating then that IS notifiable, and as usual it should be done as per BS7671, tested and a MWC issued

Testing and issuing certificates is a requirement of the wireing regs (BS7671) it is not related to part P (other than the fact that it happens a little less on non notifiable stuff...)

 

[dingbat]

a) if I replace a bathroom suite and hence the earth bonding whether it needs testing

All electrical work should be tested.
In this case, however, you are not changing the bonding arrangement, merely transferring it to your new bathroom suite. I would not notify it.

b) If I put GU10 spotlights in a bathroom it needs testing.

All electrical work should be tested.
If you replace a fitting like-for-like (call it maintenance) then, as above, I wouldn't notify it. However, replacing an existing light for several lights is extending a circuit in a special location (the bathroom). It should be tested, certified and notified to building control.

c) If I put in warmup underfloor heating in a bathroom this would need sighning off, if I was adding into an existing RCD protected ring

In this case you are materially changing the electrical installation in your bathroom. It needs to be tested, certified and notified.

An electrician should issue an installation certificate for any work carried out (with the reasonable exception of a like-for-like swap). This has nothing to do with Part P, but it is required (and has been for many, many years) by BS 7671 The Wiring Regulations.

For notifiable work you have two options (three if you use a third-party building control firm, but this is not normal for householders.):

1. Notify local authority building control in advance, pay their fee and follow their guidance as to what they want from you. LABC's enforce the regs locally and have a degree of leeway in how they ensure compliance.

Or,

2. Employ an electrician registered with a 'competent persons scheme'. He will do the work, issue you a BS 7671 certificate, then notify (if necessary) his registration body who will inform building control and send you a building regulations completion certificate.

That's it.

 

[dingbat]

Adam only beat me to it because I bothered to check my spelling.

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks Guys,
That has clarified things a bit. What I wasn't sure of was whether it was a case of it was OK if the Bonding was OK full stop, or whether ALL work in a special location including bonding required certification. I couldn't work out from the working whether the terms were ANDs or ORs.

Sounds like I am OK with the bonding anyway which is all I have done myself.
The flooring will need to be done by an electrician.

One last question - As for the spotlights will it be obvious this wasn't done as part of the main rewire which I have the certificate for? I've looked at the certificate and it doesn't go into any specifics of what was done in what room - it seems to be documentation almost purely on the fuses and spurs in the junction box.
Or do the authorities have more detailed plans of what work was done than I do on the certificate.
Thanks Again for clearing this up for me - as I said the council didn't seem to have a clue.

 

[The Jeep]

Your existing certificate should specify the results (Phase/CPC continuity (R1+R2), insulation (0.5MOhm min), polarity (correct phase/neutral orientation)) for the lighting circuit in question. However, the whole point of Part P is to ensure safety, so the new additions to the circuit would need to be tested in accordance with BS 7671 as a MINIMUM requirement. The issuing of a new certificate for that circuit is just evidence that this has been done (and is, of course, a legal requirement). The point I am making, is the safety issue comes first.

By the way, I totally sympathise with you on your confusion over all this!