Periodic inspection are these items a problem?

[scoobydo123]

Morning

Need to have a periodic inspection on a property that I am just about to rent out (purchased recently). The property is around 1950's and has been rewired in the past (PVC cable and ring main). There is a new consumer unit with RCD's and breakers in a split load arrangement. I have took some face plates off and there are grommets and earth sleeves and the lighting circuits appear to have earths connected both at the switches and roses.

Can anyone confirm if any of the below observations would constitute an unsatisfactory note.

Fan in bathroom has no switched isolator (is connected to pull cord and has run on timer)

Outside light (lantern style light attached to wall of porch)no switched isolator. Also the feed to this is surface clipped to door frame internally with no cable exposed on the outside

Whole of downstairs on one ring main including kitchen.

Garage at bottom of garden feed on non SWA cable(2.5mm) but this is in a heavy gauge steel pipe that leaves from under the stairs out to the garden (solid concrete floor), protected by a 16a breaker.

Cooker 9kw on a 40a breaker this is run on a 6mm T&E that is buried in non insulated wall approx distance 10M

Shower 8kw on a 32a breaker again run on 6mm T&E non insulated.

The spare ways on the consumer unit have been filled with breakers that are in the off position.

Cheers

 

[Adam_151]

Fan in bathroom has no switched isolator (is connected to pull cord and has run on timer)

Code 4 if you're picky about it

Outside light (lantern style light attached to wall of porch)no switched isolator. Also the feed to this is surface clipped to door frame internally with no cable exposed on the outside

I assume it has a photocell/pir? if so no code (assuming cable not liable to damage), if wired so its on 24/7 then that would be code 2 and also pretty damn daft!.

Whole of downstairs on one ring main including kitchen.

Depends on whether it actually appears to be overloaded / unbalanced or not

Garage at bottom of garden feed on non SWA cable(2.5mm) but this is in a heavy gauge steel pipe that leaves from under the stairs out to the garden (solid concrete floor), protected by a 16a breaker.

If this is galv conduit that properly earthed, and probably installed and not breaking down at joints, then its ok, if its just lashed through old scaffold pole, etc, then that would be code 2

Cooker 9kw on a 40a breaker this is run on a 6mm T&E that is buried in non insulated wall approx distance 10M

Ref method C? -compliant and no code

Shower 8kw on a 32a breaker again run on 6mm T&E non insulated.

Incorrect, code 2, if ref C again then just requires 40A breaker

The spare ways on the consumer unit have been filled with breakers that are in the off position.

If marked up as spare then no issue, if not, then code 4 for labeling not compliant

 

[westie101]

I would have thought that the first question should be: - "When was it rewired?"

From that you can then work out which version of the wiring regs it should comply with.

If it was wired to, say, the 15th and complies with them how can it be defected in respect to the 17th as NO retrospective action was required.

 

[Adam_151]

If it was wired to, say, the 15th and complies with them how can it be defected in respect to the 17th as NO retrospective action was required.

A PIR is always carried out to the version of regs in force at the time, however there is nothing in law to say you have to bring it upto the lastest standards, doesn't mean it'll get a satisfactory though!

 

[westie101]

Ah very good.

So is it made absolutely clear that the PIR is made under these conditions and that the installation may be installed to an earlier specification?

If so why did you not state that in your earlier post?

 

[Adam_151]

I dont understand what you are asking, A pir can only assess an installation against the standards in force at the time it is carried out, just becuase something complied 30 odd years ago and 'regs arnt rectrospective' doesn't mean its satsifactory now!. Not sure where you think the question was asked in the OP because i can't find it... all I see is a list off issues and how the PIR is likely to view them

 

[westie101]

I just find it surprising

Cars
As legislation has changed over the years there have been few cases where if an older car is tested for an MOT it has to comply with modern standards

E.g. a car built in say 1960 does not need to be fitted with seatbelts

Supply industry
An over head line built, again, in the 1960's, is inspected for compliance with the legislation in force at the time. So if it complies with the 5.7m ground clearance over open land it would not be defected for not complying with the present 6.0m ground clearance in the same situation

Yet in the case of a wiring installation that is all reversed seems odd to me and the supplementary point that the customer seems to be not made aware of the situation!

So the light in my bathroom would come up as an issue on a PIR, but it complies with earlier legislation, it is not illegal (but possibly undesirable).
If I was unaware of all this I could be panicked into getting it changed & a new CU etc. without there being any legal need for it.
I class that as unacceptable practice.


Yet on the other side of the coin we get fed up of electrical contractors complaining of high earth loop impedance in properties that have NEVER had an earth yet we are expected to provide one where we have no duty to do so. In most cases it turns out the wiring was never properly checked prior to a rewire so the contractor did not quote to install earth rods.

 

[JohnD]

"legal need for it"

My first house had electricity laid on when it was built in 1921, and met the standards of the time.

So main earth in 2.5mm equivalent wrapped round the water pipe.

Unearthed brass light switch in bathroom

All light switches can have the front dome unscrewed without use of tools

Fused neutrals

Need I go on?

In some cases NTCS is not significant, in some cases it is immediately dangerous.

 

[westie101]

I think you are missing the point, it is fine to inspect to any specification you want, what I am concerned at is that it does not seem apparent that customers are being told clearly that the inspection is to that latest specification and that an installation may be installed to an earlier specification and still be safe; even if it does not comply with that latest specification.

On the point of earthing we have a lot of supplies where there is a 2.5mm2 equivalent earth from a cable lead sheath to an earth bar.
The size does not comply with any of the later installation regs., but it does comply with our regs as it is our earth and does not need any retrospective action unless we are doing other work on site.

 

[JohnD]

I suppose we have to hope that the person reading the PIR goes to the section that tells him what the codes mean

as found in http://www.napit.org.uk/newsStory.asp?id=52

The difference between a code 1 and a code 4 are not too difficult to grasp.

 

[westie101]

Thank-you that was the answer I was looking for!

Though hoping or assuming are not relevant words to use where safety is being discussed (or so I've always been told)

 

[scoobydo123]

Ok seems like mostly ok. I guess that at some point the old fuseboard was removed in favour of a more modern alternative, but the wiring was left as was ie does not meet the regs in place that the consumer unit would normally be installed on. Will book in the PIR and see how it goes.

Cheers

 

[Taylortwocities]

I suppose we have to hope that the person reading the PIR goes to the section that tells him what the codes mean

as found in http://www.napit.org.uk/newsStory.asp?id=52

The difference between a code 1 and a code 4 are not too difficult to grasp.

Indeed. The PIR will include wording such as


This inspection has been carried out in accordance with BS 7671:2008, as amended.

Unfortunately, like many IET documents, it assumes that the reader has quite a high level of understanding of the information given in the document.

 

[JohnD]

doesn't the template doc have a key at the bottom saying

"Code 1: Indicates immediate danger
Code 2: Requires improvement
Code 3: Requires further investigation
Code 4: Does not comply with the current issue of BS 7671"

and some explanatory words?

(I can't find the "detailed explanation at: www.esc.org.uk ")