Permitted Development Alterations Extension to Roof

[Eddman]

Hi all planning professions/enthusiasts...

I have recently been told by a planning officer in Newcastle City Planning Department that any extension with a pitched roof adds to the allowable cubic increase of a potential loft conversion/dormer extension.

Therefore if a client already has a single storey pitched roof extension to the rear of their property under Class A of Permitted Development, the calculated roof space of this extension is deemed to form part of the cubic capacity increase allowable under Class B.

Has anyone else fallen foul of this?

I was always under the impression that the single storey rear extension would not count towards the alteration/addition the the roof - i thought this would be exclusively the main/original roof of the house?

Has this happened to anyone? and how did they deal with it? Are there any appeal cases where this kind of decision has perhaps been overturned?

 

[stevie888]

It's certainly grey.

I believe the original intention of the SI (2010 ish?) that changed PD was refering to the original main roof but many planning peeps over the years have raised spurious arguments to thwart attempts to do loft conversions as they don't like the idea.

Funnily enough I had 1 knocked back under the old rules as a small rear extension had been added to the house previously which meant that the garage was now <5m away and so its volume supposedly counted to the allowable 70cum. However the rules had now changed and the loft was now viewed independantly, We were able to build it bigger than they had refused and the stairs caused a lot less head scratching as I had more space to put them in. I enjoyed that mightily!!

On another job I raised the flat roof of the attached garage as part of a conversion and the planners got into a lather about roof volumes!

I suggest you apply for an LDC what you want and see what response you get. Note many peeps say don't bother with an LDC as if it's PD you don't actually need one. I have always maintained it's much safer to do so though and this is a case in point.

Good luck.

 

[^woody^]

The 40 and 50 m3 cumulative limits are in the guidance. There is no appeal as it's policy. You won't get a different decision via an LDC - the same criteria applies

You just have to ensure that you interpret it correctly and volumes are calculated correctly.

 

[Eddman]

Thanks for replies...

@woody - I haven't heard of this before, maybe it didn't come up, but i have done many dormer extensions in the past without being told about the cumulative limits!

Teaching day for me! So...the planners are correct? that a permitted development single storey extension under Class A with a pitched roof, this roof space in part of the Class B allowable cubic capacity increase?? Oh no! I thought Class B only related to the original/main roof of the house!!!

I was thinking of suggesting a Pre-App...

THis is going to eradicate a lot of potential flat roof dormers...even though there are examples on nearby houses!

Is there ANY way around it? I guess i will have to look at smaller dormers for loft conversions..

*EDIT*
Oh, the house was built 1955 - so i could apply for an additional storey under Class AA. If i were to do this, and made sure it fell within the limits of this class, but still only want a large flat roof dormer - would the planners look at is a lesser of two evils? Could i put it to the planning officer that if they refuse the flat roof dormer, i WIL submit LDC for the whole additional storey - which would they prefer?

 

[wessex101]

As stevie888 suggested it is a grey area with very poorly worded guidance.

However, I was under the impression that this can only apply if the extension roof is physically attached to the existing main roof. So a single storey pitched roof extension on a 2 storey house would not but the roof on a 2 storey extension would if joined to the main roof or a single storey extension to a bungalow etc.

 

[Eddman]

@wessex101 - thanks, do you think i should be submitting an LDC stating within the application that the existing roofs do not connect to the original main roof therefore should not count towards extension/alteration to THE roof?

 

[^woody^]

Theres a long thread from a few years ago about a bungalow a dormer extension and rear extension and keeping the roofs separate. There are images in it. Have a search and see if its a similar situation.

 

[Eddman]

So, I think it will fail PD under Class B, therefore if i propose a whole new storey under Class AA - do i submit a design for this under a Lawful Development Certificate and then apply for a householder with the dormer stating it is a better outcome than the compliant additional storey?