Permitted development

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Hi there
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have applied for permitted development for a 3m rear extension, part double height and part single height. The single height part of our application is because it will be within 2 metres of the boundary with our neighbours (max height of building allowed 3 metres). We were initially refused permitted development because apparently the application is considered as a whole in other words as the highest point of the application (the double height part of the application). Therefore contravening the height maximum height of 3 metres within 2 metres of our neighbours.

We subsequently reapplied only with the double height part of the extension which has been granted a certificate of lawfulness. We now would like to apply for the single part of the extension but have been told there has to be a small gap between the two rear extensions and they can't be joined? I have scanned all the technical guidance and can't find information on this anywhere. Would anyone be able to point me in the right direction please? Many thanks in advance! Have attached plans with the rear extension proposals so you can see what I mean!
 

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What do you mean that you applied for and was refused permitted development?

Permitted development can't be refused, as it is permitted.

If your proposal does not meet permitted development criteria, then you just apply for planning permission.
 
What you are proposing is not permitted development and would need planning permission.
This is confirmed in the latest issue of the Technical Guidance on p.d. issued by the government.
 
Hi there, sorry didn't make myself clear. We have been told by the council that the rear extensions are within permitted development but we need to apply separately for the double storey and single storey extension. We have achieved the double storey and we are now applying for the single storey however we need a gap between the single storey and double storey extension the council wants us to pay for any extra advice/info we are just not sure how big that needs to be. I have read the technical guidance throughly and I cannot find this piece of information to proceed.
The technical guidance and the council have said the proposals are within permitted development the refusal was related to the connection between the two. It's not a problem I will just pay for the information. I just thought someone might have the knowledge on this site. Sorry to cause any confusion, this thread is only really aimed at anyone who has an advanced insight on technical guidance on permitted development. This particular information is not listed on the technical guidance and requires specialist knowledge.
 
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I don't know why you would need a gap. Unless you plan to build the thing all at once.

Build the extension for which you have applied for the permission. Complete it, then do any other work under permitted development.

Any how, a gap can be 1mm. The criteria is that there is no connection.
 
don't know why you would need a gap. Unless you plan to build the thing all at once.

My interpretation of the elevations are that he has a PD two storey rear extension with an eaves height of greater than three metres, meaning no part of the extension can be within 2m of the boundary. So he's placed the 2 store one 3 metres in from the boundary but now wants to infill the gap with a single storey.

Both would be considered the same extension under the PD silliness, so the single storey one will still fall foul of the 3 m eaves rule, requiring a 1mm gap, as you say.

The 1mm gap isn't much, but loses you 300mm of wall thickness space and can be a pain in terms of inside layout.

I'm about to do the same, but my builder has made a mistake and forgotten to include the gap....
 
Kbsey : your eaves are probably 4.8m or so. Have you got room to have a catslide roof on both sides to get them below 3m?
 
Thankyou for getting back to me! I think we might go down Woodys route and apply for permitted development for the single storey after we've completed our double storey extension. Really appreciate your thoughts. Good luck Garyo with your extension!
 
What is it about this "apply for permitted development" thing? If it's p.d. it's p.d. - you don't need to apply for anything
(except Building Control) - you just do it!!
 
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Can you highlight on your drawing what has been granted planning permission and what else you want to do under permitted development (ie what was refused), and quote the text of the planners refusal. I'm still not clear about this gap requirement
 
Hi Woody
I have attached the rear extension pic that I am talking about highlighted in the blue and orange box, I am also attaching the original refusal. We have since applied and been granted a C of L for the orange box rear extension. Where the orange and blue box join is the bone of contention as the overall height was taken as the orange box. So we need to create a gap between the single and double storey extension if we want to build the orange and blue box at the same time. If we were to just build the orange box first, complete it then we could apply for the blue box bit no problem (as it would be considered as the correct height as an application on its own) and it can be attached to the orange as they are then considered separate applications. This might have to be the route we go down but it's of course inefficient, more costly and a pain, but maybe the best way forwards. If we did need a gap building them both at the same time, I can't see anywhere how big that gap needs to be and that is what I am trying to get the bottom of, can it be just 1mm? As Garyo says does 2 brick sizes have to be taken into consideration i.e. 300mm... Just would like to see it written somewhere. If we do go back now and apply for the blue box bit we just want to be sure we are applying with the absolute minimal gap needed between them. Sorry for the convoluted email and thanks again. By the way all other parts of the drawing with additions we have achieved planning permission for.
Best
Kbsey
 

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You won't see an actual dimension written down anywhere - certainly not in the p.d. rules or the Guidance.
However, I remember reading an appeal case on Planning Jungle 2 or 3 years ago in which a separation gap of 1" (25mm)
was regarded as sufficient to be 'separate', though I can't locate it now.
As W says - and like Brexit - separate means separate, so I wouldn't be too concerned as long as they were physically separate - say a mortar-gap width?
Once both parts were built, you could knock through - pretty sure that would come under p.d. In any case, the council would not come on to you at that stage (even if they found out) because the knock-through would be a technical breach, for which councils are advised not to take action.
 
The council appear to be correct. The whole work as applied for, would not be PD as they need to consider it as a single piece of work - even though if done as two different extensions both would be PD. A bit of a quirk, but those are the rules.

Separation in this context is not just in terms of the physical connection, but the process of building the two separately so that its not one process and one extension. In terms of building regs you cant build them both at the same time and maintain any separation, as you will need to bond the walls together.

You could build the two storey and then the single storey once the the two storey is "significantly" complete - so you should not ave to wait for it to be finished.

Put the foundations in for the whole lot, and the floor (as these are not covered by planning regulations), and make allowances for the eventual single storey in the side of that two-storey - eg a lintel for doors or a beam in the ceiling or whatever it will eventually be like.

You should not need to do two building regs applications just the one, but tell the building regs people that you will be doing the two storey first. The advantage of this, is that inspections will be dated, and so there will be a record that the two storey was "significantly" complete on a set day, and that is then the day you can start the single storey.

"Significantly" complete tends to be when the walls are up and roof on and windows in. But it could be a bit more such as when plastered.

Rather that mess about, you could just apply for full planning permission for the single storey or all of it. Both would be PD so there would be no grounds to refuse. If that saves time and money, then do that.
 
Thanks again for this, last post before we decide how to tackle this! Woody did you find this info written down anywhere This is what we are looking for really, is this rule open to doing this the way Tony has said suggested? We can't do this under planning permission as even though we applied for it under planning permission originally as a rear extension, we were refused as we are in green belt and it exceeded our 40% increase of our original property size. We were advised by the planner to apply for it as PD as she said it was separate to planning. We are getting there slowly!
 

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