Phone Controlled UFH Roomstat

[Barnman]

I am looking to replace my UFH roomstats with ones that I can program remotely from my phone probably via Amazon Echo. The only ones I can find can only turn the heating on and off but I want to be able to set the on and off temperatures throughout the day and set manual, or timer and adjust the temperature.

Any ideas?

 

[ericmark]

Have you actually tried manually altering the temperature and timing the response? I had every intention of using geofencing, however if a change from 16°C to 20°C it is reasonably fast 16°C to 18°C around an hour, then the anti-hysteresis software kicks in so 18°C to 20°C looking at 3 hours, so to move to new temperature takes 4 hours in total.

And this is with radiators, with under floor heating it is even slower to respond, so it needs a rather good thermostat which remembers how the room reacts, i.e. smart enough to know when set to 20°C with room at 16°C to heat for one hour then turn off as it will then heat the room to 20°C half hour latter, to do this it is going to be messed up if being regularly changed.

What I am saying with a fan assisted radiator you can get a fast response and it makes some sense having geofencing but with under floor heating the response is so slow there is really not point so unlikely any made.

 

[Barnman]

Thanks. I need to be able to alter the temperature and on/off times remotely because we run a B&B and it is a pain going around the rooms and out buildings if say the rooms aren't occupied over a few days. I know ufh takes time to respond but that is another reason that if I am out and we receive a booking for the next day I can remotely turn the heating on in a room.

 

[ericmark]

I know energenie do a relay and I also know items in the energenie range will connect to Nest, and it is likely they can be made to do what you want, however I have found the advertising rather useless when trying to find out exactly what they will do.

I bought a energy monitor and remote switch with the idea I could use the three remote controls I already have to switch it off/on and unlike the simple off/on sockets I could see on the phone if actually off or on. However when I go it found would not pair with the remote, it will only work with phone, PC or tablet using the hub.

So you could buy the relay and then find it will not pair with Nest. So only option is to ring the firms and ask, even then IFTTT changes every day, so it may have not worked yesterday but will work today, and you could be told it will not work when it will.

Big thing is the UFH electric or water? I had assumed electric, but of course could be connected to central heating boiler, the latter is low current and Nest, Hive, EvoHome, and Tado would all work fine, but with electric the current switched is a lot higher, and the problem is not fitting the relay, but fitting it for use by ordinary person. Every thing in a house has to be type tested.

So a relay like this one is designed to fit inside a consumer unit,

so the likely way forward would be a consumer unit close to the thermostat with the relays inside, if you go to a hotel in Turkey they have boards with relays to turn the aircon off/on and as the tourist you have to pay extra to have it switched on. The problem to my mind is

a unit like this to mount the relay does not look good on the wall, it is where it can be mounted, maybe inside the existing consumer unit, it clearly can be done, but how would depend on the property.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

There's a simple thermostat made by Sonoff which you can connect to the demand for that UFH zone, but because UFH is slow to react you may have to install the temperature sensor under the floor to get reasonable control.
Alternatively you could continue to use the existing room thermostat for that UFH zone (you DO have one, don't you?), and interrupt this 'stat's output with a Sonoff WiFi switch, effectively disabling and enabling the zone's thermostatic control via t'interweb and your smartypants phone.
Search Sonoff basic or TH10 or TH16.

MM

 

[Buxton Jim]

It's an old thread I know but Barman I strongly recommend Evohome though it may be OTT for your needs (?)
It controls my wet UFH extremely well but thatconvenience comes at a cost.

 

[ericmark]

Since March when I posted on this thread, I have moved house, and actually tried using Energenie MiHome with Nest, and it failed to follow Nest in the way it should. The poster failed to say if water or electric, which makes a huge difference. So it would seem no point in the answer for the original poster.

With wet most would control it, Hive, Nest, EvoHome, Tado and others, but with electric then very different. Likely the Sonoff that @MeldrewsMate refers to would be the best option.

 

[Aurium]

As per ericmark, this is an old thread but just for any future stumblers I also vouch for EvoHome for radiators and also wet UFH (It can be set up for electric UFH as well).

It works extremely well and does learn the characteristics of each zone to learn how early to fire up the boiler to get the zone up to set point temperature in time for when you’ve set it to start.
It is pricey and even more so for UFH as you need the controller and a room stat for each UFH zone.

Again, you get what you pay for in my opinion and it has been great for the past 4 years of having it.

 

[MeldrewsMate]

I have the Evohome in my house, but cannot recommend it unless used with electric UFH or with Opentherm boiler modulation. I have it on a three zoned S-plan setup, and find that the time proportioned integral (TPI) control modulates the zone valves to an annoying extent, even when set with the cycle rate set to 12 per hour (60 mins / 12 = 5 mins) and the minimum ON time set to 5 mins, when it should effectively run as an ON-OFF controller with standard hysteresis of 1C. The crazy result of this is that the boiler will be turned on by the system, it will ramp up to full rate over, say, 2 minutes, then be shut down by the TPI control, only to repeat several times an hour.
With Opentherm this cycling is eliminated, but the OT module is at extra cost on the Honeywell system, and extra on my boiler too.

 

[ericmark]

Today got an answer from Energenie as to why the TRV heads would not follow Nest, seems Nest has removed the function since it became Google.

But I have tried to use geofencing and realised the speed the home heats up is simply too slow, with any phone control you need the home or at least the rooms used first when you arrive home to heat up within the hour, the only way to get such a fast warm up is hot air, so fan assisted radiators will heat a room up fast, so with a 5 kW fan assisted radiator in the living room yes it will heat up fast, but even a twin panel radiator same power simply can't circulate the air fast enough, there is a delay in the radiator getting hot, and a delay in air circulating, under floor heating even worse, the delay in the floor getting hot, means it's a non starter.

OK you may get it to work if your working in Algeria and living in UK it may pick up your phone as you switch it on landing in the airport and by time you have cleared customs and travelled home it will have heated up the first room. But why would any major manufacturer make a system that will only work when it takes you 3 hours to get home?

I am trying to envisage some one with an Amazon Echo on their desk at work saying to it turn up the heat in my living room to 20°C. OK at work I can get out my phone and turn up heating with Nest and Energenie before I leave, in one or more of three selected rooms, however I don't think I ever have.