Pin Number

[pipme]

Just had a thought ... must not write down pin number ... I agree with that !! ... hmmmm! could disguise as phone number and save in mobile phone, but that is tantamount to writing down the pin ... a no,no !
So a with little subterfuge.

Birthdate for example 05/09/99 or 050999.
Pin number example 6511. (4 digit combinations 10x10x10x10=10,000)

Use 4 digits from dob ..say the final four 0999. (essential to use easy to remember combination )
Take this number away from the real pin number. DO NOT COMPLETE THE 'CARRY' OPERATION this adds a little spice, also ensures 4 digit code.

6 5 1 1
0 9 9 9 -
--------
6 6 2 2
The number to write down is 6622, a useless number to most people.

But with the key, in this case one's birthdate final 4 digits, it is easy to convert to pin number.
ADD final 4 digits of birthdate to our 'useless' number, AGAIN DO NOT COMPLETE THE CARRY OPERATION.
6 6 2 2
0 9 9 9 +
--------
6 5 1 1 One valid pin number .

The only number to remember is the birthdate, write modified pin number down anywhere as it has no real meaning .. and, importantly, contravenes no bank regulations
Oh, and if need to write the calc down ... destroy that note when done !!

P

 

[2scoops0406]

You've been to the plough again, haven't you

 

[pipme]

Shoka-maloka-lavee !!
Nah, the Yew Tree and Blue Bowl !!

P

 

[ohmygodwhathaveyoudone]

as for chip + pin i think its not really that secure as all you have to do is look over someones shoulder as they type in pin no. then if you get hold of their card without them being aware all you have to do is just use the pin no. ?
the cardholder will have to cancel the card when aware but it might be too late by then.the signiture method was more safe.

 

[AdamW]

I agree, signature much safer. Bizarrely, the automatic check-outs at my local supermarket have signature pads instead of chip and pin... I would have thought it would be an ideal use for chip and pin, much easier to implement.

Modified pin is a good idea, you have formulated a basic encryption algorithm: you can have the raw data (in this case the modified pin) but without the key (in this case the birthday) then you can't see the information (the real pin). Pip, you should consider a future in cryptography!

 

[Diyisfun]

CC companies must think chip & pin is more secure or they wouldn't be spending the £££££££££££££ on it.

As far as remembering the PIN number thats got to be easier than trying to remember car registration number when you want to report it as stolen.

You just think all the numbers that you're member through your life. I can still remember my mothers Co-Op divi number. Who remembers the Co-Op

What I cant remember is peoples names & the fact that people use the word 'mate' so often probably bears that out.

 

[2scoops0406]

Word from the horses mouth, Chip and PIN is not likely to be implemented any time soon in the UK, this is due to a reluctance by the UK banks. (I work for one of the large UK retail banks, and have been extensively involved in Chip and PIN)

To say that a signature is more reliable, flies in the face of analysis of experiences of countries that do have Chip and PIN, notably France that has a credit card fraud burden approximately 70% lower than that of the UK. (Then again you do have to take the stats with a pinch of salt in that the French use credit cards far less than we do)

 

[waran]

Eddie M,

I used chip and pin the other day to do my weekly shop in ASDA. I think it's a great idea and I agree that it's got to be safer than a signature. Once a thief has your card he just had to practise a few times to recreate your signature and then he can use it anywhere. And lets face how many checkout staff actually check the signature carefully. Whereas with the new system you at least need another bit of information that is separate from the card.
Also to illustrate how useful it could be my replacement credit card was intercepted by someone who then proceeded to use it after signing the back. If it was linked to the PIN then he wouldn't have been able to get away with it!
Whilst someone could potentially watch your hands whilst you type it in at a checkout queue, it is quite difficult to do so accurately. And the box is quite small and sheltered away from the other customers. A lot safer than cash points are at the moment.

 

[jeeves]

Word from the horses mouth, Chip and PIN is not likely to be implemented any time soon in the UK, this is due to a reluctance by the UK banks. (I work for one of the large UK retail banks, and have been extensively involved in Chip and PIN)

I accept credit cards using a CC machine with HSBC and they are rolling out chip and pin to all their merchants over the coming 6 months, or so they say, so it'll get there eventually, cost a fortune in the process!

I don't think it will be compulsory for quite a while, the impression I get is that merchants can still accpet signature transaction after their (HSBC) deadline but at their own risk. Of course it all goes out the window with customer not present transactions anyway.

 

[pipme]

I thought the little crypto on the pin number was pretty good ... great for noting the numbers down ... with little fear of de-crypt.
--------------------------

...... Who remembers the Co-Op..

Only large fire I ever saw .... The 'co-op' building, as was, in central Bristol, huge blaze in the 60's ... saw large windows, several floors up blowing out and cascading onto the firemen below ... thick garments plus helmets plus no looking up kept them safe ... A very sobering experience, to witness such a conflagration !! How to move parked vehicles .. axe through side window, handbrake off, fire tender up the chuff ..
-----------------------
Doesn't chip and pin place the onus onto the user ? Have seen some little terminals which were on full public view .. surely they could have a screen viewable only within a restricted overhead angle ?? I was able to watch a lady punch her number in, and I wear specs !!
----------------------
Oh well, off to mow the grass... again !!

P

 

[2scoops0406]

Yes Chip and PIN is primarily going to be introduced (When I don't know, our Chip and PIN project is on indefinite hold due to the fact that "no one else is doing it") it shifts the financial loss from fraudulent transactions from the banks to the merchant or the individual, nice eh?

 

[ohmygodwhathaveyoudone]

Word from the horses mouth, Chip and PIN is not likely to be implemented any time soon in the UK, this is due to a reluctance by the UK banks. (I work for one of the large UK retail banks, and have been extensively involved in Chip and PIN)

To say that a signature is more reliable, flies in the face of analysis of experiences of countries that do have Chip and PIN, notably France that has a credit card fraud burden approximately 70% lower than that of the UK. (Then again you do have to take the stats with a pinch of salt in that the French use credit cards far less than we do)

i've had chip + pin in my shop for the last 2mths ?
so have asda/poundstrecher/wilkinsons etc.. to name but a few.

 

[2scoops0406]

You may have the kit in the shop, but the ain't anything at the banks end! Mind you that makes it their problem.

 

[ohmygodwhathaveyoudone]

You may have the kit in the shop, but the ain't anything at the banks end! Mind you that makes it their problem.

the kit in my shop has been activated ages & works fine.

 

[2scoops0406]

You haven't got the full range of services though, 'cos theres no facility to communicate with the banks systems. It is probably working in an "off line" mode