Given that new bathrooms require temperature limits on bath hot water and that plate heat exchangers apparently scale up faster if water is heated excessively, can a temperature limiter be placed on the thermal store side of the heat exchanger instead of the DHW side?
Plate heat exchanger or internal coil
- Thread starter Enfield250
- Start date
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Danfoss supply a good range. More commonly used on district heating sub stations but can equally be applied on a small domestic situation. Have fitted quite a few of their avta industrial range valves.
Quality stuff I might add.
The 2 port VMT from the domestic range can be used in such an application afaik.
SAV are using danfoss substations with the AVTB fitted....
http://www.sav-systems.com/flatstation-and-substation-hius/
As do APV....
http://www.apv.com/us/products/heatexchangers/districtheating/compakva/Compakva_36+_54+.asp
Quality stuff I might add.
The 2 port VMT from the domestic range can be used in such an application afaik.
SAV are using danfoss substations with the AVTB fitted....
http://www.sav-systems.com/flatstation-and-substation-hius/
As do APV....
http://www.apv.com/us/products/heatexchangers/districtheating/compakva/Compakva_36+_54+.asp
That is never the case in anything I have encountered.
Nor did it help the builder when Gledhill boilers went bust and of the 26 he had fitted into new houses, two had failed before the houses had been occupied!
Tony
You wouldn't want to, it's a thermal store, a higher temperature means more heat stored.
It would be inadvisable to limit the HWS outlet to a safe temperature at the outlet from the store or cylinder either, since the safe temperature is 43 (or 46?) and legionella thrives best at 37 degC. The TMV on a thermal store outlet is to bring the temperature down to something that isn't scalding. The 'safe' temperature TMV should be adjacent to the outlets (taps).
There will be an increase in legionella infections as the clueless mis-interpret the regulations.
You could control the outlet temperature of a plate heat exchanger to 60 degC by having a variable speed pump or 3-port mixing valve on the primary inlet from the thermal store.
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There will always be a debate or argument as to what is best , claims & counter claims , ther is at the moment a 6 or 7 page debate or disagreemnt in the CC on weather compensated controls& it is likely to run & run !
!
Wow! They're discussing WC in the CC? The phrase 'blind leading the blind' comes to mind for some reason. Are there gas-fired controllers?
There will always be a debate or argument as to what is best , claims & counter claims , ther is at the moment a 6 or 7 page debate or disagreemnt in the CC on weather compensated controls
!
Wow! They're discussing WC in the CC? The phrase 'blind leading the blind' comes to mind for some reason. Are there gas-fired controllers?
You think so ? why do you think that ? one of the fellas has written a number of technical articles that were published in the gas engineer publication ? (last 3 publications) , have a read there interesting some disagree with his article's always interested in opinions ?
I think that because I think most UK installers have a poor understanding of controls compared to their counterparts in the EU or some in the US.
The article is here, on pages 26 & 27;
http://www.registeredgasengineer.co.uk/gasmagazine.php
I read it. It didn't get beyond the basics on the first page. The second page is the same as the first page.
How could that happen? The publishers didn't read it before printing, they attach no importance to it. I'd suspect few of the readers have complained because they don't read it either. UK trade publications contain little beyond adverts (vans, tool, boilers, rads, etc) and an occasional naked-lady-in-the-shower picture.
Compare the technical content of that article (or half article) with this in a US publication;
http://www.pmengineer.com/Articles/Feature_Article/cdd55d5472298010VgnVCM100000f932a8c0____
The cousins call WC 'outdoor reset'. Draw whatever conclusions you like.
Would have to agree with u onetap , general understanding beyond some basics is not good , include myself in that !
I assume ? u are of the opinion that the articles are not accurate / mis leading ?? sales hype ?? that is the view of one particular poster in there who has put together some very good (In my view ?) reasons ? are u not in the cc onetap ?
Will look at your posted sites later when I get on another PC !
I assume ? u are of the opinion that the articles are not accurate / mis leading ?? sales hype ?? that is the view of one particular poster in there who has put together some very good (In my view ?) reasons ? are u not in the cc onetap ?
Will look at your posted sites later when I get on another PC !
There's nothing wrong or misleading in the article, it was pitched at the 'Ladybird Book of Heating Controls' level. Page 2 may have gone into more details, but didn't make it into print. The publishers get their money from the adverts and I'm sure those were proof-read in fine detail. The pdf version has been on line for a week or two and the omission has not been corrected; it is of no importance to them.
SFAIK, controls are not covered by the ACS curriculum. How would the average gas installer acquire any expert knowledge of electronic controls?
I don't do gas and am not in the CC. You wouldn't want the likes of me getting in there , worrying the sheep/experts.
So, to confirm that, it has a 25 year guarantee, underwritten by an 18 month old limited liability company but you hadn't noticed that until it was pointed out to you.
i find it very amusing that you recommend something you only read about 5 minutes ago. Experience clearly isn't your strong point. You'd be good at a modern day degree course as all it requires is that the student thoroughly researchs information and apply it to their work. Some people leaving uni today are pretty rubbish in the real world however.
When the arguments lost the abuse starts!
I dont think something written like that would pass anyone on a degree course!
Everything needs to be clearly stated so that the examiner can see that you understand the topic ( or not! ).
I thought that you would have been banned again by now! Are the mods on holiday or something?
Tony
Well the way I see it ? it's all very well useing your own house for your own R&D purpose's , fit something play around with it , alter it , knock somrthing up ect ect but somehow I doubt many customers would want that
As for my electric shower advice / combi , it was a rented property , combi go's down they still have some means of hot water .
As for knocking some thing up , about 20 odd years ago we knocked up some solar panels around here . material costs no more than £100 (?) , took em down about 2 years ago , running costs in 18 years zero , absolutely nothing
As for my electric shower advice / combi , it was a rented property , combi go's down they still have some means of hot water .
As for knocking some thing up , about 20 odd years ago we knocked up some solar panels around here . material costs no more than £100 (?) , took em down about 2 years ago , running costs in 18 years zero , absolutely nothing
I'm sure you have fitted such a thing, TM/Drivel. No pictures?
May I point out that, the point of WC is that there is an outdoor air temperature sensor. It takes some time for heat to travel through the fabric of a building, and the WC control increases/decreases the flow temperature to the radiators to allow for the variations in the external temperature and so the increased/decreased heat loss from the building.
WC, applied to air handling units is pointless, since the AHU is drawing in outside air and will respond immediately to any change in air temperature to maintain the supply air temperature (Ts) at a constant value. Ts would be calculated by the controller to maintain the room air temperature at the set-point.
The coils also freeze immediately if the heat should fail. You will have, I'm sure, have given great thought to the frost protection strategy. An AHU supplied from one combi sounds distinctly dodgy; the combi/pump only has to shut down for 60 seconds before you are into coil replacement. So how does it work when there is a hot water demand and the combi stops the heating?
Air off manual-reset thermostat, hard-wire interlocked to spring return inlet damper? Coil outlet temperature sensor? How many analogue/digital inputs are ther on a BrainZ controller? Do tell, I'm interested.
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