Has he jumped ship?

1 Aug 2008
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United Kingdom
Guess who, he may not be well thought of here but the head administrator of his new home has already praised his arrival. (he hates unvented's too).
See below his second post.

Thermal Store - has an internal DHW take-off coil
Heat Bank - has a plate heat exchanger and pump.

People get them mixed up.

An integrated heat bank, CH & DHW, is very different to an unvented cylinder. It is not a direct replacement, although there are DHW only heat banks/thermal stores. It offers so much more. In most cases it is foolish not to use an integrated heat bank/thermal store.

Thermal Stores/Heat Banks are far superior to unvented cylinders - and safer. Read below....

Advantages of Thermal Stores/Heat-Banks

- Instant high pressure hot water - When the store has reached temperature, or just the top of the store in a heat bank, water is delivered instantly at the taps.

- High mains water pressures - At up to 10 bar using a heat bank plate heat exchanger, compared to 3.5 bar maximum with most unvented cylinders.

- Very high water flow-rate - The high-end heat-banks have a flow-rate up to 45 litres/min.

- Long efficient boiler burn - Eliminates boiler on-off cycling increasing efficiency and boiler longevity.

- Maintains a Low Return Temperature Promoting Condensing Efficiency - using high efficient plate heat exchangers the return temperature from the plate s guaranteed to be very low. The bottom of the cylinder get very cool while the top can be 70C to 75C. Even is the store is set to 80C, 80% plus of re-heat time the boiler is condensing.

- Maintains optimum boiler temperature range – Using a blending valve the flow/return of the boiler can be kept to optimum maintaining greater efficiencies. The boiler operates at optimum performance.

- May combine the output of the stored water and the boiler - The boiler and energy in the store may be combined to increase output. This in effect makes the cylinder larger.

- Cylinder may be smaller for a similar performance - smaller cylinders than unvented cylinders.

- Cylinder at low pressure - Unlike an unvented cylinder vented stores do not store water at high pressures.

- Fast cylinder recovery rate - When the boiler is connected directly to the heat-bank, and not via an indirect coil, the recovery rate is rapid. Although in some cases a boiler may heat the heat-bank via an indirect coil, reducing the recovery rate.

- Legionella bacteria virtually eliminated - The Legionella bacteria cannot survive in the high temperature sealed conditions of a heat-bank.

- No scale build-up in heat-bank – Containing primary and not secondary fresh water, there is no scale build-up inside the heat-bank cylinder.

- Cold water storage eliminated - No need for cold water storage tanks.

- No BBA certification to fit – Unvented cylinders require an approved fitter to install. Thermal stores/heat banks require none and can be DIYed. Even pressurised heat banks.

- Solar heating storage - Water heated via solar panels may be stored in the heat-bank via a solar coil.

- Easy maintenance - If an external plate heat exchanger requires cleaning or replacing it is a matter of draining down the heat-bank, or closing isolating vales, and unscrewing the plate heat-exchanger. In some rare instances plate heat-exchangers are fitted directly inside the heat-bank preventing on-site maintenance.

- Easy to improve hot water flowrates – By simply adding additional plate heat-exchangers in parallel, hot water flow rates may be improved. Retrofit additions are possible if extra bathrooms or showers are installed. This is impossible with unvented cylinders.

- Stored water vessel need not be cylindrical – As no internal coil is used for hot water heat transfer the stored water vessel may be any shape, as opposed to a thermal store which has to be cylindrical for maximum efficiency. This has advantages where space is limited.

- No Annual Service Charge – Unvented cylinders require an annual service of between £60-£100. Thermal stores and Heat Banks are service free.

- Thermostatic Radiator Valves can be on all Rads - No wall thermostat required and TRVs on all rads when the CH circuit is taken off the store cylinder and an auto modulating speed Grundfos Alpha pump used.

- Cheaper, Smaller, Simpler Boilers May Be Used – The large buffer of stored water means that a boiler sized for average use, not peak use, can be fitted.

- Larger Boilers may Be Used Without Fear of Boiler Cycling – A larger boiler can be used to reduce the cylinder size or give rapid heat recovery rates or both.

- Full Electric Backup of CH and DHW – An immersion Heater(s) can be fitted in the cylinder that will give CH and DHW backup very cheaply.

- Vented Thermal Stores/Heat Bank Eliminate Explosion risk – Unvented cylinders have an explosion risk. This is not a problem with vented thermal stores/heat banks.

- Pressurised Thermal Stores Don't Need Annual Service - No BBA unvented certification for fitting or annual service is required if a thermal store is pressurised and uses a plate heat exchanger.

Disadvantages of Thermal Stores Heat-Banks

- The store needs be near full temperature to supply baths - Before any hot water is drawn off, the store must be up to temperature. Many later versions use a blending valve on the return to the boiler to ensure only up to temperature water is pumped into the store by the boiler. This prevents agitation of the stored water, and aiding heat stratification within the store giving useful water at the top of the store within a short time. The water is heated only in one pass through the boiler.

- Lower water temperatures with fast flow-rates - As with Combi boilers, fast flow-rates through the plate heat-exchanger results in lower water temperatures. This is not so pronounced with heat-banks as with internal coil thermal-stores. This also applies to combi's. With a heat bank, larger or extra plate heat exchangers can be fitted to increase flow rates. Sized up properly this is not an issue in operation.

- Needs more inhibitor - A minor added cost.

Advantages overwhelmingly to thermal stores/heat banks. [/quote]
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:confused: :confused:

I'm now totally confused. What was all that about, (to long to read it all) :confused:

Could the answer have been just yes or no :?:
It was in refference to our resident google expert Dr Drivel. So come on tell. where's he spreading his bile now?
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I ffink BB's pi$$ed someone off on the navitron site :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:

That all comes across as a pretty aggressive hard sell for thermal stores (or maybe heat banks - if you really think there's a difference that we should care about, please explain and provide references ) so sorry if my response sounds that way. My first thought was, are you in the business? Your profile doesn't provide any information so perhaps you could, one way or the other.

PS Generally I'm in favour of thermal stores, as regulars here will know.

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