Plumbing Electrics

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I recently bought and had installed an Stelflow unvented hot water cylinder, but the guy who installed it cocked-up the electrical connections to the thermostat causing a short circuit.. I don't want to use him again as I don't feel he knows what he's doing when it comes to dealing with electrical wiring I have something of an understanding of electrical wiring diagrams generally and am familiar with am 'S' plan wiring diagram, so feel reasonably confident in tackling this myself, but am confused by pamphlet instructions, (see d) below) which came with the cylinder, and seem at odds with the wiring diagram shown on the cylinder company’s website, which I discovered later. I have provided some photos, with wiring diagram to explain where my confusion lies. I will have to go into some detail so please bear with me, and it would be much appreciated if someone who genuinely understands plumbing electrics could help me out here.

a) The thermostat is of a Duastat control type, with a manual Adjustor, box (A) on the right has the water temperature regulated by the user. Also a Limiter , Box (L) automatically cuts off the boiler if the temperature ever reaches a maximum limit.

b) So instead of one standard 3 terminal box there are 2 boxes, with 2 independent circuits. Box (A) (Adjustor terminal box photo) shows 4 terminals.

c) These are marked on the website wiring diagram as (C), (E), (2), (1) respectively. Only 2 terminals are shown to be actually connected. A(1) is taken as live to H/W programmer ON J(6), which is usual. A(2) is shown as a terminal with no actual wiring connection. I’m assuming that this is the case. Finally, L(C) is taken as the output voltage to junction box J(9). So L(C) should always have the same voltage (on/off).as A(C), which is presumably switched to A(1) internally, until the required temp is reached when it switches to A(2), thus opening the circuit in A.. Before that happens A(C) bridges live to L(2), which in turn is switched to L(C) until the maximum temp is ever reached, when L(C) switches to L(2). Ideally that should never happen as that is a safety device, thus relying on A(2) as the cut-off instead.

d ) It is the instruction pamphlet that really causes the confusion. There are 2 cables shown feeding both A and L each with 2 wires per cable (Fig. 5). As you can see, a Live is shown connected to L(C). which is misleading, as it is A(1) which should be taking live voltage from J(6), according to the wiring diagram in c) above. Furthermore, A(1) is seen connected to a neutral, whereas that terminal is supposed to be fed from the programmer HW ON via J6. Nor is there supposed to be any neutral feed to the thermo boxes, so what are they talking about? And what does terminal ‘U’ in the pamphlet mean?

Many thanks.
 
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Did the installer have the G3 cert to qualify him to install unvented. These aren't something that any responsible plumber/heating eng will recommend that you DIY.

If he's not competent with electrics, is he competent with the rest of the install. Unvented systems can be very dangerous if not installed correctly.

Pay for the services of a COMPETENT G3 certified engineer, to check your installation. Money well spent.

Lecture over. ;)
 
Just to answer some of you questions, the U stands for whatever is to be controlled ie boiler or pump, or in this diagram a 2 port valve, the pamphlet shows the the complete circuit so you have in this case

programmer (hot water) > C >2 > C > 1 > 9 on junction box to brown on 2 port and then the neutral,

get your installer to connect the cylinder up as per the website wiring diagram, they are both the same but the website one is a bit clearer.
 
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Did the installer have the G3 cert to qualify him to install unvented. These aren't something that any responsible plumber/heating eng will recommend that you DIY.
If he's not competent with electrics, is he competent with the rest of the install. Unvented systems can be very dangerous if not installed correctly.

Pay for the services of a COMPETENT G3 certified engineer, to check your installation. Money well spent. Lecture over. ;)
No he didn't. When I booked him I was lied to when I asked about this. He promised to turn up with the certs on the morning of the job, then arrived without them, but assured me he had done many unvented cylinder installations before. As he turned up with all his tools and seemed confident I reluctantly let him get on with the job. In the event he managed to plumb the new one in ok, but cocked-up the electric side causing a short. I can get the central heating to work, but the boiler won't fire when HW programe is switched on because he's wired up the thermo wrongly.
 
The pamphlet first seemed to me to show a neutral connection to the HWC, and a live feed to the contact in the limiter box, which cannot be right, and is at odds with their web wiring diagram. But now you've explained what the 'U' means, this makes better sense.

Except in the pamphlet they've still got a live (from programmer) shown connected to C in the limiter box. It should be HWP > 1 > C > 2 > C > 9 > brown, according to the web diagram. Ie the pamphlet is showing the wiring the wrong way round. It is T(1) in the adjustor box that is connected to the programmet at J(6), not T(C) as shown in the pamphlet
 
As your not using 2 on the cylinder stat it does not matter which way round you connect them, the thermal cutout and cylinder stat are in series, the pamphlet is showing the correct way to connect the wiring.
 
As your not using 2 on the cylinder stat it does not matter which way round you connect them, the thermal cutout and cylinder stat are in series, the pamphlet is showing the correct way to connect the wiring.
Yes, I'd agree on that. I'm still totally baffled why T2 in the Adjustor box in the pamphlet is shown connected to 'U', then neutral, whereas the wiring diagram shows no connection to T2, period. Anyway thanks for your help. I've contacted the makers of the cylinder, and they advised me to stick with their wiring diagram, so I'm happy to go along with that rather than rely on the pamphlet.
 
I think where you're getting confused is the fact that contact 2 on the overheat stat is bor (break on rise) where as contact 2 on the adjustable stat is mor (make on rise)
That help? :D
 
I think where you're getting confused is the fact that contact 2 on the overheat stat is bor (break on rise) where as contact 2 on the adjustable stat is mor (make on rise)
That help? :D
Not me that's confused. :rolleyes: Contact 2 on Limiter is break on overheat, ie if temp rises above permissible limit. Contact 2 on adjustable is break when required temp is reached. That's the whole purpose of having a duostat.
 
m06een00 wrote

and it would be much appreciated if someone who genuinely understands plumbing electrics could help me out here.

And what does terminal ‘U’ in the pamphlet mean?

Nor is there supposed to be any neutral feed to the thermo boxes, so what are they talking about?

I'm still totally baffled


Not me that's confused.


Of course no confusion on your part. I do apologise.
How silly of me to have suggested otherwise. :rolleyes:
 
m06een00 wrote

and it would be much appreciated if someone who genuinely understands plumbing electrics could help me out here.

And what does terminal ‘U’ in the pamphlet mean?

Nor is there supposed to be any neutral feed to the thermo boxes, so what are they talking about?

I'm still totally baffled


Not me that's confused.


Of course no confusion on your part. I do apologise.
How silly of me to have suggested otherwise. :rolleyes:

That was before another poster took the trouble to explain the pamphlet photo. Since all you seem to enjoy doing is to be sarcastic, and negative and attempt to confuse things further, I have one solution for you. P*** off!
 
m06een00 wrote
That was before another poster took the trouble to explain the pamphlet photo
No the confusion continued well after the pamphlet explanation I'm afraid.................
Contact 2 on adjustable is break when required temp is reached.

:rolleyes:
 
Another satisfied customer.

Shame the OP wasn't so confused when he employed an unqualified, incompetent installer. Some punters get what they deserve! :rolleyes:
 
Haven't read every thread so excuse me if i repeat myself but YOU must not touch an un-vented cylinder without your G3cert. Would you work on GAS?

Well let me tell you this, a STEAM explosion is approx 10 times worse than a gas explosion!!!

Stay away from it, turn it off and get a competent installer to put it right!!!

Oh and U is for the heater element. SO it shows the Neutral to the unit and the switch live from the stat as they should be on the pamphlet. Variable temp terminal 2 wouldnt be used. Very clear to me but then again ive got my G3. Really gets on my tits when un-qualified people do work they no Jack about
 

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