Plumbing Electrics

[m06een00]

Haven't read every thread so excuse me if i repeat myself but YOU must not touch an un-vented cylinder without your G3cert. Would you work on GAS?

Well let me tell you this, a STEAM explosion is approx 10 times worse than a gas explosion!!!

Stay away from it, turn it off and get a competent installer to put it right!!!

thanks for the advice. but the problem is an electrical one, not a plumbing one. I'm aware of pressure problems, but there is a pressure gauge installed to warn me if any excess pressure should ever arise. I've had the central heating running when the cistern was installed, and that part worked fine, without causing pressure problems. My problem arose because although the CH was working, I couldn't get hot water from the cylinder without switching on CH. The installer wrongly wired the HW thermo.

Oh and U is for the heater element. SO it shows the Neutral to the unit and the switch live from the stat as they should be on the pamphlet. Variable temp terminal 2 wouldnt be used. Very clear to me but then again ive got my G3. Really gets on my **** when un-qualified people do work they no Jack about

Yes. It's been explained to me what 'U' means in an earlier post (see Picasso), but the unit is a 2 way port motor valve, not the heater element. The pamphlet is concerned with wiring the thermo only. I have done some electrical work before, and I'm still in 1 piece and those jobs were completed satisfactorily. My understanding was also that variable temp T2 wouldn't be used, but the pamphlet distinctly shows a unit connection to it, which I feel is misleading, and why I raised this issue. I can understand a U connection to T1, but not to T2, which is supposed to a cut-off switch point.

 

[picasso]

I thought this thread was done

The T2/T1 connection shown on the pamphlet is a change over switch, when the cylinder is satisfied T2 becomes live and can be used to open another zone valve if you wanted to heat a second cylinder for example, not normally used in this country.

 

[looneyfitter]

The 2 port is there to stop water flow which in turn prevents the cylinder over heating!!!

Its the electrical side of an unvented heater that is the IMPORTANT bit.

This is what happens when it goes wrong!

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=169821

 

[m06een00]

The 2 port is there to stop water flow which in turn prevents the cylinder over heating!!!

Its the electrical side of an unvented heater that is the IMPORTANT bit.

This is what happens when it goes wrong!

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=169821[/QUOTE]
Yes, I appreciate that. It also happens to switch the boiler and pump on and off, which is the point of why the port is connected electrically to them. You mentioned in your previous post about the heater element, which is a completely separate circuit., and nothing to do with the thermo connections. I think we're talking cross-purposes here.

 

[m06een00]

I thought this thread was done

The T2/T1 connection shown on the pamphlet is a change over switch, when the cylinder is satisfied T2 becomes live and can be used to open another zone valve if you wanted to heat a second cylinder for example, not normally used in this country.

I thought so too. Thanks for explaining the T2 to U connection. The only person out of anyone else who actually seems to understand what they are talking about and answered my questions. You deserve a beer for that.That wraps it all up for me now. But perhaps you can see why I was confused by this. Many thanks.

 

[ChrisR]

but the problem is an electrical one, not a plumbing one. I'm aware of pressure problems, but there is a pressure gauge installed to warn me if any excess pressure should ever arise.

Oh dear. You're still unaware that you don't know what you're talking about, on several points.

 

[wetshoes]

To the OP,
For what it's worth I would suggest contacting Stelflow and explain whats happened.
Ask them if you can still have the 25 year cylinder guarantee if you have the wiring re done by a qualified electrician (who is familiar with unvented wiring) and you get the cylinder checked / re-commissioned by a qualified plumber (again one who is familiar with unvented systems).

At the moment You've got no guarantee, - not a lot of hot water, and your system is possibly unsafe !

 

[looneyfitter]

The 2 port is there to stop water flow which in turn prevents the cylinder over heating!!!

Its the electrical side of an unvented heater that is the IMPORTANT bit.

This is what happens when it goes wrong!

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=169821[/QUOTE]
Yes, I appreciate that. It also happens to switch the boiler and pump on and off, which is the point of why the port is connected electrically to them. You mentioned in your previous post about the heater element, which is a completely separate circuit., and nothing to do with the thermo connections. I think we're talking cross-purposes here.

Not once in this thread have you mentioned not knowing how to wire the orange and the grey!!!!

YES i know that the 2 port controls the boiler and the pump. GREY and BROWN together and ORANGE to boiler/pump.

But you would know that if YOU was COMPETANT.... Your putting your family and possibly other families lives at risk by messing about with a potential TIME BOMB.

I bet you havent even informed building control that you have had the unit fitted have you?

 

[m06een00]

Not once in this thread have you mentioned not knowing how to wire the orange and the grey!!!!

Why would I? That's the port wiring, not the thermo's, and it's already wired in.

YES i know that the 2 port controls the boiler and the pump. GREY and BROWN together and ORANGE to boiler/pump.

Really? And you're telling me you hold certificates in this. Grey is connected to live at the junction box, ie it's live all the time. Brown is supposed to be a switched live, when the thermo makes it so, so why on earth should brown be connected to grey? That would make brown permanently live.

But you would know that if YOU was COMPETANT....

I do, but do you? And competent has a 2nd 'e''.

I bet you havent even informed building control that you have had the unit fitted have you?

Correct. I haven't

 

[looneyfitter]

Not once in this thread have you mentioned not knowing how to wire the orange and the grey!!!!

Why would I? That's the port wiring, not the thermo's, and it's already wired in.

MAYBE BECAUSE THE STAT CONTROLS THE BROWN!!!

YES i know that the 2 port controls the boiler and the pump. GREY and BROWN together and ORANGE to boiler/pump.

Really? And you're telling me you hold certificates in this. Grey is connected to live at the junction box, ie it's live all the time. Brown is supposed to be a switched live, when the thermo makes it so, so why on earth should brown be connected to grey? That would make brown permanently live.

Erm you dont have to connect GREY to permanent live at all!!!! You can connect it to the brown if you like IT IS SWITCHED WITH THE STAT!!! and safer imo JUST SHOWS HOW MUCH THEORY YOU KNOW LOL

But you would know that if YOU was COMPETANT....

I do, but do you? And competent has a 2nd 'e''.

IF YOU HAD ANY KNOWLEDGE OF UNVENTED CYLINDERS THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT THE STAT IS N/O & N/C AND THERE FOR THE OTHER TERMINAL ISN'T USED!

OH AND SORRY FOR THE SPELLING LOL

I bet you havent even informed building control that you have had the unit fitted have you?

Correct. I haven't

Dont you think you should then? and while your at it tell them you have messed with the electrics.........

 

[picasso]

Do not connect brown and grey together on an s plan, you will get "latching" of the valve, backfeed down the orange wires causes the valve to be held in the open position and the boiler firing.

 

[looneyfitter]

Do not connect brown and grey together on an s plan, you will get "latching" of the valve, backfeed down the orange wires causes the valve to be held in the open position and the boiler firing.

not once have we ever had that problem. 240v from the stat and 240v from a permenant live is the same thing.

If the brown supply is removed then the supply to grey is also... In turn, removing any supply from the orange

You shouldnt be getting any back feed from the boiler/pump

 

[picasso]

not once have we ever had that problem. 240v from the stat and 240v from a permenant live is the same thing.

no it isint, if that were the case why bother putting a grey wire in the first place, on an s plan you have 240v on both of the orange wires even if only one valve is open, if the orange is live so is the grey and if you have linked the brown this will be live as well, if the brown is live the valve cannot close, chrisr has a good diagram in the cc showing it a lot clearer than I can explain.

 

[looneyfitter]

not once have we ever had that problem. 240v from the stat and 240v from a permenant live is the same thing.

no it isint, if that were the case why bother putting a grey wire in the first place, on an s plan you have 240v on both of the orange wires even if only one valve is open, if the orange is live so is the grey and if you have linked the brown this will be live as well, if the brown is live the valve cannot close, chrisr has a good diagram in the cc showing it a lot clearer than I can explain.

I can draw the diagram off the top of my head buddy, no need to explain.

I have just realised were talking about an s plan(not with it tooday) . so yes i agree you could get a back feed but only when the HW is called for at the same time as CH, once CH is safisfied it would then knock off untill the next cycle so i stand corrected. Apologies. Also pretty certain the actuator switches now include diode packs to stop back feed.

Never the less. He shouldnt be touching unvented.

 

[Andygasman2010]

not once have we ever had that problem. 240v from the stat and 240v from a permenant live is the same thing.

no it isint, if that were the case why bother putting a grey wire in the first place, on an s plan you have 240v on both of the orange wires even if only one valve is open, if the orange is live so is the grey and if you have linked the brown this will be live as well, if the brown is live the valve cannot close, chrisr has a good diagram in the cc showing it a lot clearer than I can explain.

I can draw the diagram off the top of my head buddy, no need to explain.

I have just realised were talking about an s plan(not with it tooday) . so yes i agree you could get a back feed but only when the HW is called for at the same time as CH, once CH is safisfied it would then knock off untill the next cycle so i stand corrected. Apologies. Also pretty certain the actuator switches now include diode packs to stop back feed.

Never the less. He shouldnt be touching unvented.

Nice back-tracking there loonyfitter it's nothing to do with "s-plan" as such, just spring return valves in general.

Picasso, you're definatly right there. I've seen this before, took me a while to figure out what was going on!