PM hopeful Truss blamed YOU for Britain's failure

I'm finding it curious that people seem to miss a big problem with suicide bombers. They can let them off when ever they like. So say people are searched in a queue - how much space between them? It could be possible at some events to say no rucksacks but what to do if one turns up. How big a bag does it need to be.

Some examples of suicide bombers
www.britannica.com

London bombings of 2005 | History, Facts, & Map

London bombings of 2005, coordinated suicide bomb attacks on the London transit system on the morning of July 7, 2005. At 8:50 AM explosions tore through three trains on the London Underground, killing 39. An hour later 13 people were killed when a bomb detonated on the upper deck of a bus in...
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com

What happened to some one with more direct action that might have been one and wasn't

The Killing of Jean Charles de Menezes: Hyper-Militarism in the Neoliberal Economic Free-Fire Zone on JSTOR

Jude McCulloch, Vicki Sentas, The Killing of Jean Charles de Menezes: Hyper-Militarism in the Neoliberal Economic Free-Fire Zone, Social Justice, Vol. 33, No. 4 (106), Deaths in Custody and Detention (2006), pp. 92-106
www.jstor.org www.jstor.org

A question on another aspect mentioned - what is the ideal ratio of police to the general population?

In many cases of crime particularly burglary style things the best option for catching them is some one noticing them say getting into a house. Just how many police would be needed such that all were spotted?

I would agree that more are needed especially travelling around looking for criminals but a perfect 100% solution isn't really on. :) One of my grandads used to do that on foot long ago. He would even leave us sometimes when we visited at night for an hour or so to do his rounds. So maybe there is something wrong with organisation but what ever will never be 100% effective. I've seem him off duty show his warrant card and intervene when people are doing things they shouldn't. He was a pretty big bloke. That ended as they could not get enough police. If in uniform and some one proves violently resistant out comes the truncheon and some one's collar bone gets broken. Rather painful and disabling. Batons have been known to kill some one with a hit over the head. They have other options now, pepper spray and tasers. The latter may get misused - something does need doing about that.
 
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andy11 said:
The total number of people employed by the police is what matters, because that's where our money, the money we are forced to pay in taxes, in the good faith that that money will provide is with peace and security, goes.

Have a look at the total number of people employed by the police. You might find it is higher than, or nearly as high as, it has ever been.
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Of the couple of Met police I've spoken to, their concerns weren't the number of police but Theresa May's interference in the 'stop and search' powers.
 
Pat ex said:
Crime has reduced since its peak of 1995.
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Nonsense; there is no way official figures about crime rates can be accurate. Most crimes go unreported. I see several every day merely on my way to work or to the shops. People do not bother reporting the majority of crimes now because they know it will be a waste of time. It is said that the average convicted criminal will have already committed 100 crimes before he is caught for the first time.
ajohn said:
I'm finding it curious that people seem to miss a big problem with suicide bombers. They can let them off when ever they like. So say people are searched in a queue - how much space between them? It could be possible at some events to say no rucksacks but what to do if one turns up
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Don't you think it appalling that we have to consider searching anyone in a pop concert queue for bombs? How mundane you make it all sound. We have to think like this because of the uncontrolled millions we have let into the country in recent years.
ajohn said:
A question on another aspect mentioned - what is the ideal ratio of police to the general population?
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It doesn't matter how many police you have if, as is the case currently, the courts do not punish criminals effectively.
ajohn said:
In many cases of crime particularly burglary style things the best option for catching them is some one noticing them say getting into a house. Just how many police would be needed such that all were spotted?
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Such coverage is not needed for effective policing, which is preventative rather than reacting "after the fact". The old style of policing in Britain had bobbies who knew the area and knew who all the villains were. The villains knew the local bobby too, and knew where they stood. It is about the presence of the law, something we do not have now that many police stations have been shut and the police are only seen speeding past in their cars.
 
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andy11 said:
Like x1000 Mottie.

NO. Tony Blair's and Jack Straw's opening of the floodgates to millions of the scum of the earth was the problem.

In the 70's and 80's, the heyday of large pop and rock festivals, was there ever a threat of bombings or any form of killing? The police were ever-present at these festivals, and the main problem for them to deal with back then was drug-taking, fighting and general rowdiness. If the police had abandoned these events in the 70s and 80s, there would have been no bombings by anti-western muslim lunatics because there wasn't a large, uncontrolled and unmonitored contingent of anti-western muslim lunatics at large in Britain at that time.
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There's been one bombing of a concert, it's not exactly a common occurrence. Yes, one too many, but i fail to see how you can blame a labour government from the late 90s. The bomber entered during Tory rule, didn't they?

the Tories have done sfa apart from steal our money, that's the problem.
 
andy11 said:
People do not bother reporting the majority of crimes now because they know it will be a waste of time.
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Lol. And you still blame the previous government.
 
JP_ said:
Lol. And you still blame the previous government.
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I blame all governments. I'm not interested in Conservative v Labour arguments, they are all actually one evil entity that needs driving out of the country.
 
carmanmemoranda said:
Im sure they do. I would expect a concert has to too (but i dont know)
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I don't know either, but if it applies to football matches, one would expect concerts to have to contribute also.
In which case I would assume the amount of police presence is calculated from the number and type of expected visitors.
The possibility of suicide bombers wouldn't (I assume) enter into the equation.
So, maybe the police and the organisers ought to have , and should for the future, include into the cost of such events the possibility of the extraordinary happening.
But I suspect it'll take more than some18 year-olds on £5.50 ph with inadequate communication systems.
 
Pat ex said:
I don't know either, but if it applies to football matches, one would expect concerts to have to contribute also.
In which case I would assume the amount of police presence is calculated from the number and type of expected visitors.
The possibility of suicide bombers wouldn't (I assume) enter into the equation.
So, maybe the police and the organisers ought to have , and should for the future, include into the cost of such events the possibility of the extraordinary happening.
But I suspect it'll take more than some18 year-olds on £5.50 ph with inadequate communication systems.
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This isn't meant as a criticism, just information. I would have expected more than 5 though


The five officers referred to the watchdog were assigned to the arena at the time of the blast, which also injured hundreds as they left an Ariana Grande concert.
In June, inquiry chairman Sir John Saunders found the group "failed to follow clear instructions and do what was expected of them in important respects".
Four had ignored briefings to stagger breaks and took "substantially and unjustifiably in excess" of what was permitted, he said, while the inquiry heard PCs Bullough and Renshaw had gone on a 10-mile round trip to buy kebabs.
This meant there were no BTP officers in public areas below the arena during a key period.


But we seem to be focussing on a youngster being paid a pittance
 
andy11 said:
I blame all governments. I'm not interested in Conservative v Labour arguments, they are all actually one evil entity that needs driving out of the country.
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If you will allow andy11, perhaps I could sum up your political ideology:
You propose shooting asylum seekers on sight.
You have no faith in any UK government or potential government. I'm guessing that you haven't for a good while now.
You think that all UK governments and potential governments are evil entities, perhaps born of the devil?
Am I right in thinking you believe Covid was a big global scam? Undertaken to control the masses with some subterfuge?
You think that all (UK) government data and statistics are pure fantasy and you have no confidence at all in those details.
You believe that all societal problems are caused by immigrants.
I think you believe in retribution for criminals, perhaps you're a supporter of capital punishment.
I suspect you're an ardent Trump supporter?
You think the military should consist of rough tough individuals always ready for a punch-up.

Have I adequately summed up your political ideolog?

Do you think you might consider changing your username to Atilla the Hum, it might be more appropriate.
And in the meantime, back to the barricades for you, ON THE DOUBLE!
;)
 
carmanmemoranda said:
In June, inquiry chairman Sir John Saunders found the group "failed to follow clear instructions and do what was expected of them in important respects".
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Inquiries can completely ignore some aspects of situations such as that one. It is a fact that if a suicide bomber is in a crowd there is a serious problem. If approached by anyone they are highly likely to blow themselves up and those around them. What an enquiry doesn't do is find a way of getting around that. The end result is a type of blame game. It wouldn't matter who approached him. If his intentions are interfered with the bomb is likely to let off. This factor hasn't even been considered.

Grenfell has similar features. The fire services have certain procedures and there are good reasons for them. Maybe they should be changed. The real problem the insulation in the cladding. These buildling are not designed for rapid evacuation. I tried looking for a decent timeline once but failed. People watching say the fire spread very quickly. How much time was available for a procedure change, how effective would it have been. What started the fire - it seems it was a plastic backed fridge or freezer etc. This has happened before. Gov noises - makers, please stop using them.
 
andy11 said:
I blame all governments. I'm not interested in Conservative v Labour arguments, they are all actually one evil entity that needs driving out of the country.
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Driving out by who, and replacing with what?
 
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