Police shoot to kill ?

[ban-all-sheds]

For gods sake.... why did you feel the need to say a ' female' manager Agile???

jesus...... so it all went **** up cos a women made the decision did it??????????????????

I wonder if he'd have used an adjective to describe the ethnic origin of the commander in the same way?

there may be huge mistakes here and if the police acted wrongly then they should be dealt with.

It may have been a huge mistake, or it may have been a series of small ones which all added up.

How the people responsible should be dealt with depends on what they did, or failed to do, and to what extent the were negligent (if they were) or merely incompetent.

I don't want a witch-hunt, I don't want the two guys at the sharp end to be thrown to the wolves in order to protect those higher up - I want to know the truth about what happened

However, we will never be told the whole truth.... as the 'public'.

That will never happen and can never happen in the interest of national security.

It would be nice to think that whenever "national security" is invoked as a reason for secrecy that it is genuine.

Unfortunately, as I have observed above, it is routinely used to protect the incompetent and the negligent, and the liars, and in some cases the criminals.

It is routinely used, in the form of the Official Secrets Act, to attempt to silence people who are trying to expose lies and incompetence etc. Look at the recent examples of Clive Ponting, Sarah Tisdall, Katherine Gun, Cathy Massiter...

So when I hear "national security" given as a reason why we cant be told what mistakes were made that led to two policemen shooting dead a perfectly innocent and harmless man, I tend to react with scepticism.

 

[Agile]

The 1983 case of the shooting of Steven Waldorf a 26 year old film editor and the aftermath is another interesting case.

Witnesses said marksmen surrounded a car in a traffic jam in Pembroke Road in Earls Court and opened fire. The driver was shot several times in the head and body including a bullet lodged in the spine.

The Police were actually looking for an escaped prisoner called David Martin. But police believed the female passenger, Sue Stephens, to be Mr Martin's girlfriend.

There was no attempt to arrest him and they were shooting to try to kill him because he had murdered a policeman. I would suggest they were taking revenge on him.

Again it was a case of mistaken identity because it was not the suspect David Martin but instead Steven Waldorf! They shot the wrong man!

Two officers, John Jardine and Peter Finch, stood trial for attempted murder and attempted wounding but were cleared of all charges in October 1983. Policemen who shoot people rarely get convicted even if they are charged.

The pair remained in the police force but were barred from any further firearm duties.

Stephen Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and received £150,000 compensation. The public pay the compensation from their taxes and the police get off !

That was 23 years ago but it has some strangely similar aspects to the shooting of the Brazillian. Dont the Police ever learn?

The Forest Gate shooting could have killed him. Yet again the Police had apparently made a mistake! We are still waiting for the details.

Tony

 

[hermes]

I would be interested to know what percentage of all police bullets fired in this country were fired in error. Any guesses anyone?

 

[Agile]

Most Police bullets are fired during training.

The number fired operationally is actually very small.

Luckily many are used in hostage situations where the target is well identified and has failed to respond to calls to disarm and give himself up.

The problems come when the Police decide to go looking for someone who is going about his lawful activities. They often make identity mistakes with tragic results.

What concerns me and a few others is that the Police often fire first and answer questions afterwards, usually lies until further evidence comes to light. However the armed officers concerned virtually never get charged with any offence when they have shot the wrong man and even if they do they are never found guilty.

Tony

 

[ellal]

Stephen Waldorf eventually made a full recovery and received £150,000 compensation. The public pay the compensation from their taxes and the police get off !

That was 23 years ago but it has some strangely similar aspects to the shooting of the Brazillian. Dont the Police ever learn?

Of course they don't...because as you've pointed out, they aren't held accountable for their actions!