Police shoot to kill ?
- Thread starter Agile
- Start date
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I don't think all of us were saying it is...Thermo said:
Or 7 shots to the head followed by Bang - the detonator wired to his heart monitor has gone off..?
So who is responsible?
How do we find out who?
When we have found out, how do we find out to what extent (s)he/they were incompetent, negligent or careless?
Someone made the point that when other people, acting in good faith, make mistakes that result in them killing someone, they are held to account for it and "I'm sorry, I made a mistake" is not good enough.
To what extent should the security forces be exempt from scrutiny and facing the consequences of incompetence and negligence if through those they have killed an innocent person?
To what extent should the public simply accept, because they are told, that this is the only way?
Is it right, or healthy, that as a society we should accept that if the police say they had to kill someone that they must be right?
As a society, what number of mistakes are we prepared to tolerate? How many more de Menezes' will we think is OK?
I don't think that.
But neither do I think that we should adopt the "police are always right" attitude, and not seek a thorough investigation into what went wrong, and accept a situation where (it seems to me) it has been predetermined that nobody will be held personally accountable for the deliberate killing of an innocent man.
ive never said there shouldnt be an investigation, ive always said someone should be held responsible and accountable.
I never said that everyone thought it was easy to disable one, but a lot of people have made comments along the lines of pin him down by his arms or disable him. Ive just pointed out the reality of it and how what may look like a very over the top action is in fact justifiable in relation to what the firearms officers did.
so what other way is there of dealing with it is there then?
Why do you think that nobody will be held accountable? There is a prosecution occuring and a large number of witnesses both police and civilian will no doubt be called and it will be carried out in a court of law. Anyone of those could be found to be accountable for their actions on that day. Just because its not a murder charge everyone seems to think it is being swept under the carpet.
I never said that everyone thought it was easy to disable one, but a lot of people have made comments along the lines of pin him down by his arms or disable him. Ive just pointed out the reality of it and how what may look like a very over the top action is in fact justifiable in relation to what the firearms officers did.
so what other way is there of dealing with it is there then?
Why do you think that nobody will be held accountable? There is a prosecution occuring and a large number of witnesses both police and civilian will no doubt be called and it will be carried out in a court of law. Anyone of those could be found to be accountable for their actions on that day. Just because its not a murder charge everyone seems to think it is being swept under the carpet.
Sheds and several others dont seem to be aware of the information in the public domain.
Firstly, I watched it live outside the tube station on the day. One of the TV stations had a camera and reporter there. Of course it was very unclear exactly what had happened apart from armed officers rushing into the station. I also heard the statements put out by the Police later that day which subsequently turned out to be false.
Secondly, I watched a reconstruction, allegedly based on the facts as disclosed so far. The salient facts are that Metropolitan Police Commander Cressida Dick , who they showed, gave an ambiguous order to "stop the man" to the armed officers.
There was also a long time between leaving his flat and arriving at the tube including the bus journey, I think about 35 minutes.
Radio 4 did an interview with the fellow, who was shot at Forest Gate, this morning. Sad that he is so poor at speaking after being through our educational system.
Again he should have been picked up outside away from the house particularly as they thought he had explosives there.
Tony
PS Because several people thought that it was relevant that she was a female, I have removed the work "female" and inserted her actual name. I state the facts, if others want to draw prejudicial conclusions thats not my fault. Its just as well that she was not IC3.
Firstly, I watched it live outside the tube station on the day. One of the TV stations had a camera and reporter there. Of course it was very unclear exactly what had happened apart from armed officers rushing into the station. I also heard the statements put out by the Police later that day which subsequently turned out to be false.
Secondly, I watched a reconstruction, allegedly based on the facts as disclosed so far. The salient facts are that Metropolitan Police Commander Cressida Dick , who they showed, gave an ambiguous order to "stop the man" to the armed officers.
There was also a long time between leaving his flat and arriving at the tube including the bus journey, I think about 35 minutes.
Radio 4 did an interview with the fellow, who was shot at Forest Gate, this morning. Sad that he is so poor at speaking after being through our educational system.
Again he should have been picked up outside away from the house particularly as they thought he had explosives there.
Tony
PS Because several people thought that it was relevant that she was a female, I have removed the work "female" and inserted her actual name. I state the facts, if others want to draw prejudicial conclusions thats not my fault. Its just as well that she was not IC3.
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No individual has been charged with anything.Thermo said:
The office of the Metropolitan Police Commissioner is to be prosecuted under sections 3 and 33 of the Health and Safety at Work Act (1974).
If found guilty, no individual will receive any punishment, but the organisation could receive a large fine (unlimited, actually).
But since the organisation is the Metropolitan Police, fining them just moves money from one public pot to another.
and if during that prosecution any person is found individually to have breached the legislation they in turn can be prosecuted.
whatever they are being prosecuted under its still in open court, so hardly swept under the carpet is it
whatever they are being prosecuted under its still in open court, so hardly swept under the carpet is it
well all these 8 pages seem to prove is..
1. there are many with opposing viewpoints, and
2. no-one has all the available facts before them.
So, I think it's fair to say that what people should be most concerned about is the current inabilty to ascertain the truth - and the reluctance of the authorities/police to enable such a process to go ahead..
and why?
1. there are many with opposing viewpoints, and
2. no-one has all the available facts before them.
So, I think it's fair to say that what people should be most concerned about is the current inabilty to ascertain the truth - and the reluctance of the authorities/police to enable such a process to go ahead..
and why?
today I bought a sandwich from the town where I work. It was stale.
The 'male' manager dealt with it incompetently.
For gods sake.... why did you feel the need to say a ' female' manager Agile???
jesus...... so it all went tits up cos a women made the decision did it??????????????????
yawn yawn yawn
there may be huge mistakes here and if the police acted wrongly then they should be dealt with.
However, we will never be told the whole truth.... as the 'public'.
That will never happen and can never happen in the interest of national security.
We can sit in our armchairs moaning.... and ignorantly blissfully unaware of what and who is around us.
The 'male' manager dealt with it incompetently.
For gods sake.... why did you feel the need to say a ' female' manager Agile???
jesus...... so it all went tits up cos a women made the decision did it??????????????????
yawn yawn yawn
there may be huge mistakes here and if the police acted wrongly then they should be dealt with.
However, we will never be told the whole truth.... as the 'public'.
That will never happen and can never happen in the interest of national security.
We can sit in our armchairs moaning.... and ignorantly blissfully unaware of what and who is around us.
Well if that was me ( the one who fired the trigger ) in my mind would be i've got kids, and i want to see them again so... haven't said that, then maybe i would be in the wrong job, one thinks.
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