Potterton Suprima 80l only igniting when cold.

[kmacandie]

I have a 5 year old Potterton Suprima 80l that has been serviced annually since installation. Four weeks ago I noticed that all the radiators in the house were cold. The boiler, which is in the garage, had gone to lockout but started up again first time when I pressed the reset button. Woke up the next morning to a freezing cold house. Boiler locked out, restarted straight away when reset. A few hours later the house was freezing. Again, the boiler had locked out, but re-ignited immediately when reset.

The boiler is covered by our home contents insurer for up to £500 of repairs and so I gave them a call. Over the past four weeks, the insurer's approved engineer has attended and the following parts have been replaced:

-pump
-zone control valve actuator
-thermistor
-PCB (yes, the new one, brand new from the manufacturer)
-fan assembly
-air pressure switch

I still live in a freezing cold house.

I have spent hours, sitting in the garage, watching what happens. The boiler always ignites normally from cold. It will run through a few normal cycles, the house will start to warm up and then, when the boiler is hot, the ignition cycle starts but only gets as far as the fan coming on. The fan runs for about 30 seconds, no ignition clicks are heard, no sparks seen inside the boiler, the fan stops and the boiler locks out. At this point, holding the reset button for the diagnostic mode gives 2 flashes in keeping with an ignition failure. Trying to reset the boiler whilst still hot fails - the red light starts to flash rapidly and I have to let the boiler cool for about half an hour before I can reset it and start the whole happy process all over again.

The insurer tells me they have spent over £1000 and I have spent £200 on parts and labour to get no further forward. The insurer now tells me that my boiler is "beyond economic repair" (although they can't tell me what is wrong with it) and that they will not fund any further repair attempts.

I would be quite happy to pay someone who knows what they are doing to come and fix it or at least confirm that it is irreparable, but the chance are that when someone attends, the boiler will either be running fine because I have reset it or the boiler will be cold and start up without any problems, resulting no doubt in the engineer looking at me as though I have a head like 2 dicks before billing me for a call-out fee and suggesting delightedly that I call them back out if I have any further problems - which I will.

If I need a new boiler, then I need a new boiler (albeit a condensing one that will doubtless freeze up the next time we have temperatures of -17C), but I would hate to go to such lengths if all I need is, for example, a new HT lead or ignition.

Has anyone heard of such a problem before, where the boiler only ignites when cold but not when hot? Could it be a hairline crack in the ignition. The gas valve sticking when hot? How on earth would I find out?

I'm in the West End of Glasgow. Please, if anyone can help, I'd really appreciate it.

Not sure if it helps, but I have a video clip, with sound, of the failed ignition sequence here: http://gallery.me.com/macandie#100010 (You could skip the first half, the real excitement starts halfway through!)

Thanks for any help.

Kerr MacAndie

 

[Agile]

The boiler is covered by our home contents insurer for up to £500 of repairs and so I gave them a call. Over the past four weeks, the insurer's approved engineer has attended and the following parts have been replaced:

-pump
-zone control valve actuator
-thermistor
-PCB (yes, the new one, brand new from the manufacturer)
-fan assembly
-air pressure switch

Kerr MacAndie

He is a parts changer and has no diagnostic skills.

Its the engineer which needs changing.

Its my view that you would succeed with a legal argument that the engineer they sent just changed expensive parts without diagnosing the actual fault.

Danny ( DP on here ) of Ranoch Services should be able to come and fix it for you if you decide to go privately.

You also say that you have spent £200 on parts and labour. One wonders why!

Boilers are just machines and there will be just one part primarily causing the problem. It could even be a problem at the gas meter! But regardless it needs diagnosing and your "approved engineer" clearly has no diagnostic skills.

Tony

 

[kmacandie]

Thanks Tony,

Isn't the internet amazing? A helpful response in under 10 mins!

He is a parts changer and has no diagnostic skills.

Its the engineer which needs changing.

Alas, I suspected this despite the "Eng Tech LCGI MCIPHE RP". Unfortunately, I had to go with the insurer's approved engineer. I have phoned some other engineers for advice but have been universally met with "Do you want someone to come and look at it, or do you want a quote for a new boiler?" as opposed to "That sounds very much like x, y or z..." And based on recent experience, it seems that I can't have confidence that someone is up to the job just because they have a string of letters after their name. (Actually, as a surgeon, I knew that already!)

You also say that you have spent £200 on parts and labour. One wonders why!

A couple of weeks ago I was told that the engineer couldn't get a hold of the fan assembly for at least 2 weeks. I told the insurer I could order one online and get it delivered the next day. As they said they would reimburse me I went ahead and ordered the fan assembly and air pressure switch. Needless to say, I have not been reimbursed.

Its my view that you would succeed with a legal argument that the engineer they sent just changed expensive parts without diagnosing the actual fault.

Yes, agreed. Although here is my solicitor's advice:

Kerr,

Thanks for the documentation. The Insurers do not commit to meeting the cost of a permanent repair unless it can be done within their budget of £500. They have not in this instance done so.

The alternative is for them to provide a temporary repair which they will say they have done. It is a moot point how temporary temporary is but I don't think you'd be expecting it to break down again after only a few hours and repeatedly thereafter. That said they don't guarantee repairs instructed by them. All they have to do is to pay up to £500, which they have done.

If you can have any claim against them or their contractor you would need to show he had been negligent in his diagnosis of what was/is wrong. That may only come following an examination by a Corgi contractor properly trained to repair the particular type of boiler. In other words, until you know why it is failing repeatedly, they will have been seen to have done what was required of them. I think you have to have it examined by an authorised repairer and get a quote for the repairs necessary.

Sorry I can't be of any more assistance.

Danny ( DP on here ) of Ranoch Services should be able to come and fix it for you if you decide to go privately.

This could be extremely helpful advice - thank you.

I had asked the insurer to send out someone from the manufacturer but they have failed to do so. Potterton/Heatteam do offer a repair service to consumers but it is tied in with a 12 month breakdown plan which (in theory!) I don't need. On top of which, I'm not sure I can be confident that they would send out anyone who's any more reputable than the last engineer I dealt with. Presumably you (and perhaps others here) would recommend that I contact Danny rather than the manufacturer? If so, should I mention your recommendation?

Once again, thanks for such a fantastic and prompt response.

Kerr