I do not believe it. Needs details.
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You'll never get a job with BG
glad to say
Haha aye, an antiquated system that will probably go on to work for another 40 years without very much ever going wrong with it, reason being? Because there's less to go wrong. Jesus, I put a combi in maybe 7 months ago (converted a system!! Believe it or not, at the customer's request) Brand new rads, heating pipes throughout, upgraded the gas, everything tip top as it should be and guess what? Customer phones me to say "it's come up an error code" high hot water temperature, has now had to reset it 5 times and I now need to get the manufacturer out under warranty to sort it .
I've had many instances where installing a combi has resulted in getting the manufacturer out to sort issues with it not long after its been put in. I can GUARANTEE that after doing this cylinder I don't hear of one issue from it within the year, let alone the first six months! So don't give me your speal about the great and wonderful combi where I'll have the customer on the phone saying "This is crap, I can't run a bath for my kids the way that i used to..." there's a time and a place for them and this ain't it, so you're flogging a dead horse mate
Neil.... Hard-On is a fool of the highest order. You'd do better sticking your typing fingers into a macerator.
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The source was a report being discussed on a subscription only forum. I had to ask permission to quote from it.
Regret I was only given permission to post this meagre amount of information.
The test bed is 22 semi-detached houses, ( 11 identical pairs of 2 bedroom houses ) owned and maintained by a large industrial organisation for staff and long term visitor accommodation.
Gas , electricity and water are supplied to the houses by the organisation
Historically gas , electricity and water meters have been read monthly and this data is archived,.
Four houses were converted to un-vented DHW and sealed heating with pumps and valves gear external to the boiler.
Four houses were converted to combination boilers.
Fourteen houses retained the vented DHW and vented heating system
Four graphs of gas consumption during the 16 months after the conversions were produced ,
(1) Mean of 10 of the unconverted houses
(2) Mean of the other four unconverted houses
(3) Mean of the houses converted to un-vented DHW
(4) Mean of the houses converted to combination boiler
Analysis of the graphs
----------------------------
An analyst, un-aware that the graphs were of gas consumption, made the following observations
Graph (1) as requested was used as the benchmark for comparison with the other grpahs.
Graph (2) practically the same as the benchmark graph.
Graph (3) was similar to the benchmark graph, deviations ( per month ) from benchmark were between +1.5% and -5.2%
Graph (4) was similar to the benchmark graph, deviations ( per month ) from benchmark were between +7.8% and -4.6%
The highest deviations from the benchmark were in the summer months.
Residents Survey
--------------------
Residents in houses converted to un-vented DHW were generally satisfied with the new system.
Residents in two of the houses converted to combination boilers had since the conversion been using electric kettles for washing up water.
Possibly use of electricity for heating water.
-----------------------------------------------------
Graphs of gas and electricity consumption were produced for each of the houses converted to combination boilers. These graphs covered the 16 months of the trial and 16 months preceding the conversions These graphs demonstrated that after conversion two houses were using more gas per month in summer than the other two houses (B and D). The graphs of electricity used demonstrated houses B and D used slightly more electricity than houses A and C in the summer months.
When the analysts were made aware that the graphs were of gas and electricity consumption they expressed concern that factors such as cooking methods and life styles would reduce the validity of any conclusions drawn from the graphical data. The inference that DHW from a cylinder was prefereable to DHW from a combination boiler was however valid based on the data avaiable.
The opinions of the residents affected by the conversions were taken into account and the decision was made to convert all the houses to un-vented DHW.
Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/intergas-eco-rf-vs-hre.490416/page-10#ixzz5hNUM1znM
Being professional means providing the customer with a system that suits his needs.
Do you consider adding complexity also adds value ? it adds to cost but cost is not value.
Bernard you have been told it is not complex.
A combi is a system boiler with a water section added in most cases. System boilers go wrong as well - surprise, surprise! Those combis without plate heat X's only have 4 moving parts. They have far less to go wrong than a system boiler with a 3-way valve and an unvented cylinder.
Dannyboy you forgot to write numbnuts. What a let down.
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Maybe they should fit two combi boilers
I assume that was not aimed at me.
No Bernie, I like you. You look at things from all angles.
The other one is Hysterical
You obviously have not looked into the history and creation of the combination boiler concept. A couple of starting points for your research
http://www.thnet.co.uk/thnet/BF/BFPages/overhist.htm
and quoting from from https://blog.bosch.com/history/en/2016/09/30/warming-up-water-and-rooms-the-junkers-combi-boiler/
All-in-one
The idea of a combination of both heating system and domestic water heater, even though created in the 1920ies, became interesting for manufacturer in the 1950s. Junkers, one of Europe’s leading manufacturers of heating systems, had an extensive product portfolio at the time. The range extended from small electrical water heaters for kitchen use, to gas-fired boilers for bathrooms, to gas-fired central heating systems. But Junkers did not yet offer any combined devices, even though its engineering departments were already working on them.
In 1962, Junkers unveiled the “Bremen system” in partnership with that German city’s public utility company. It comprised a small central heating system for single-family homes, equipped with a powerful boiler for heating water, a circulating pump, and a thermostat. This meant it could switch between feeding hot water into the radiators and heating water for household use. It was the blueprint for the ZW 20 launched in 1966 – “Z” for Zentralheizung (central heating), “W” for Wärme (heat), and 20 kilowatts maximum output.
The combi boiler also appeared at just the right time. During the second half of the 1960s, swathes of apartments were being renovated in many central European countries. They were technically completely outdated and still fitted with heating stoves. Some did not even have any means of heating water apart from boiling a kettle. And combi boilers were just as suitable for installing in these apartments as in new buildings. At 40 centimeters across, the combi boilers were only as wide as two sheets of A4 paper. This ability to fit into the smallest of spaces was one of the many reasons they quickly caught on.
Then there is Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/6242025
However, it wasn't until 1868 when Benjamin Maugham, painter and decorator had the idea of heating water with gas. Although, Maugham didnt realise it, the technology of heating our homes in the 21st century was born. He is generally accepted as the inventor of the Combination 'Combi' Boiler, which he called "the Geyser".
Maugham invention disappointingly, was seen as dangerous and a health hazard as it had no temperature controls so scalding was possible and it had no flue for ventilation, meaning people could be exposed to lethal emissions. He was not an engineer and would make little or no money from he's invention.
Bernard I recall Chaffoteaux were the first to introduce the system boiler. The first combi introduced in the UK was by Worcester in the early 1970s - a floor mounted job. Many companies have system boilers and combis that are pretty well identical except for the added water section. I assume your post was directed at others.
Forced air was the first mass take up of heating in the UK - in high rises using U and C flue ducts. Many installations would have an accompanying balanced flue instant hot water multi-point water heater also into the U or C duct. They were fitted in homes with gardens as well, without the U ducts of course.
Small bore heating (15mm pipe to panel rads) was promoted by the Coal Board in an attempt to stop the tide of gas by using a back boiler.
Forced air was the first mass take up of heating in the UK - in high rises using U and C flue ducts. Many installations would have an accompanying balanced flue instant hot water multi-point water heater also into the U or C duct. They were fitted in homes with gardens as well, without the U ducts of course.
Small bore heating (15mm pipe to panel rads) was promoted by the Coal Board in an attempt to stop the tide of gas by using a back boiler.
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