Q for the plumbers - not paying you due to wishy washy invoice?

[Mr. Clueless]

So I had a plumber come out to fix my boiler. Nice enough guy. Quick with the replies. Looking back I think he was sewing the seeds on his pricing perhaps (we got chatting about work & story short he said it's quite dear for plumbers & plumbing parts around our way & much cheaper down south, which I found a bit back to front).

Told me the repair would cost "a few £100" as it's a dear part causing the leak. Few days later he sends me the quote. Bit more than I thought it'd be.
Then when I got home to reply I spotted in his text .... he's one of these +VAT talkers (a huge pet peeve of mine) so it worked out that the fix was just over £500. Needed the leak sorting so said ok.

All in all he was at the house around 1hr-ish.

I send over my email for the invoice & more days than I expected later he finally emails the invoice through.

Description - "boiler repair".

No mention of what parts were replaced, no mention of what else was done (he mentioned that while he was in there then he may as well do xyz since he has access). No mention of duration & labour cost for this duration.
Just "boiler repair" & the total amount owed to be paid by in a few days time.

I've had numerous in my ear telling me the guy was really quite dear for what he's done (a manifold was mentioned on initial inspection & some plastic part). That aside - I accepted his price so it was what it was.

I'd like to know what ACTUAL work was carried out though. 1) for my own records because I'll forget otherwise, as I'm not even sure right now exactly what was done 2) if anything goes iffy in the near future then I know XYZ was done rather than me asking what was done 3) I assume the parts/work come with some kind of warranty but maybe they don't.

So I sent off a response email asking for either an updated invoice or just a response email to details the actual work carried out so that I know what was done. I've not yet paid him (because if I do then he has no incentive to give me this detail). I have no problem paying him, I just want the info.

So plumbers, if a customer requested this, do you think this is being unreasonable? Do you detail your invoices or do you also put wishy washy descriptions? I don't actually know the norm.


Side note - how much would you expect for a service? On a Worcester boiler. This chap said he'd charge £125. Now as he's clearly a +VAT talker, I don't actually know if that's £125+VAT or inc. VAT.
Our previous was £70-£80inc. VAT.
I spoke to another plumber who came to where I work & he said his company charge £80+VAT.
So this guy based on just 2 other plumbers seems really quite dear. Or maybe they're just really cheap.

 

[BigSnoopy01]

Worcester boiler service depends on parts but its normally £70 to £90 plus parts. Most models need electrodes, burner seals every 4 to 7 years ideally. If its a compact it needs opening and flushing every 2 to 3 years so new seals then.

As for invoice I list all parts fitted. If you want a price breakdown I explain my parts price includes my markup for warranty and business costs ontop so you know why the price may be slightly higher than a googled price.

 

[CountryFan]

Worcester fixed price repair might have been cheaper, sounds like a hydro block/manifold, if left hand, that’s quite expensive as the part is only approx £30. If right hand block then price still dear but not as bad, depends what else he’s done. As for a breakdown it’s not unreasonable.

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Thanks for feedback on the warranty. It's a Greenstar 25 or 30 Si.

Also I'm aware (although I was only aware AFTER giving him the go ahead) of this fixed price repair & how it would've been cheaper, although allegedly that would've carried the risk of them deeming it beyond economical to repair & maybe they wouldn't have done it & I'd have been hit with a callout fee & then needed to get someone to fix it on top of that.

Whether that's true or not I don't know.

The situation I was in was I had a boiler leaking minimum 2 litres per day & it had already started staining the ceiling of the room below. I wasn't using the timewaster of a plumber we'd been using (was decent to begin with but then started to take the wee-wee over time) & just picked someone local. I wanted it done quick, he did it quick. I was also on a limited timeframe due to annual leave so it was also a short notice, short window job.

Regards where the leak was coming from - as you look at the boiler it was rearmost on the right hand side. Now whether it was leaking from there or leaking elsewhere & tracking there, I've no idea. It was also cold water too & the leak did not impact the boiler pressure whatsoever.


I also don't wish to challenge him on his price. I'm not interested. I'm well aware that he's likely on the dear end but I had the option of saying no. It was my choice to go ahead. I just want a breakdown of the job, materials etc.

Although in a few days we'll be at his deadline with no payment. I suppose he'll be in touch then.

 

[Mottie]

It’s not unreasonable at all to expect to be told exactly what has been done. Failing that, just send him the "few hundred" he initially quoted you.

 

[cdbe]

For what it's worth, having had one of those boilers, is that once the plastic starts leaking it's on its way out - mine started with the flow turbine, then the left block, then the right block then another two bits that I can't remember until finally after yet another leak my guy struggled to identify without him taking it off the wall - at which point he recommended replacement.

My guy is honestly and very reasonably priced but what I paid him over the past 5 years was getting on for half the cost of a replacement boiler.

Some on here will probably disagree but I paid a "box shifter" (but Worcester accredited) £1,800 for a new Worcester 1000 with a 5 year warranty.

Otherwise try some kind of insurance cover or get a fixed price repair next time and hope they replace anything suspect.

Strangest thing for me is that when the warranty was registered to my email address it's there in my Bosch "account" alongside my chop saw and angle grinder.

 

[mattylad]

I have had to change both plastic manifolds in mine, I hate that everything is plastic these days - IMO it really shortens the life of the boiler.
Anyhow, just get in touch with the guy and ask him to redo the invoice with more information on what he did.
Tell him your insurance company is asking for it and they also want to discuss the amount charged

 

[gas112]

Yep not unreasonable to ask what the actual repair was and what has been changed etc

 

[Mr. Clueless]

Well the 'deadline' for payment was yesterday & he's not been in touch with what I've requested.

No doubt he'll think I'm being awkward, squabbling over a trivial matter. I'm expecting to be told I should've phoned this question in.

But I'm sick of tradesfolk offering email as a way of communication but not actually using it. If tradesfolk don't want to be contacted this way then specify not to do that, simple.
I don't want to be phoning you with questions while you're in the middle of a job you're concentrating on & therefore not concentrating on what I'm now saying to you & you're getting all shirty over it (been there with another guy which put me off phoning tradesfolk & I don't like phoning people anyway at the best of times).

No doubt I'll hear from him in some capacity at some point.

 

[dilalio]

A lot of trades folk (including me) detest the paperwork side of things as we just like fixing things and the practical side of the work we do.

But it is part of being a sole trader and must be done.

I am thorough and try to be as fair as possible to both parties. Sometimes, things escalate and you're right in the thick of it so need to deal with additional issues which complicate any pricing discussions had.

I also try to be fully descriptive with my invoicing as I believe it helps justify the costs to the customer.

But... There are some who will take that detail, start googling and then come back at you with comparison costs to complain.
All after the work has been done.
This is a stress that is not needed.

Customers rarely know or can see the difference between the quality of one tradesman to another (especially without having used them) but I do and have seen some very poor standards which means I know I'm worth what I charge.

You are definitely entitled to know what was done and it's likely that he thinks you have an ulterior motive.

Just text or WhatsApp him saying you want to settle his invoice but would like to know what was replaced for future reference when further problems may occur with the boiler - email may seem to formal maybe.

My tuppence worth

 

[gas112]

From what i see your not asking for a breakdown in costs so not being picky you are just asking to know what has been done and fitted a totally normal and basic request which shouldnt have to have been made as it is basic telling a cust what you have done after you have done the job

 

[Razor900]

I've been in the tradesmans position regarding communication more times than I would care to admit although I don't think I have ever sent out such a vague invoice. Most of us warrant parts we have fitted for a year which would be difficult if they don't know what was changed.

Must admit I'm on the customers side this time. Following up on stuff is a PIA but it's part of the job

 

[dilalio]

I've been in the tradesmans position regarding communication more times than I would care to admit although I don't think I have ever sent out such a vague invoice. Most of us warrant parts we have fitted for a year which would be difficult if they don't know what was changed.

Must admit I'm on the customers side this time. Following up on stuff is a PIA but it's part of the job

Totally agree Ray,
My post was aimed at how OP might get through to engineer who wants to be vague - either for the reasons I mentioned OR because he's overcharged!
But, tbh £500 is not unreasonable for a leak that was damaging fabric.

If he's VAT registered then that component is not worth the mention... If he is, then VAT number will be on his invoice!

 

[Mr. Clueless]

It'd be nice if he did give me a full breakdown of parts, their cost, his labour cost etc, just for curiosity. I get how he'd think I'm preparing myself to challenge his price but if he can't (won't) give that then the least I want is to know what was changed.

As I say it's like going to a garage & getting the invoice which says "fixed stuff" or going to the supermarket for the weekly shop & just having the receipt say "groceries" with a total figure.

I deal with trades folk for my work (mostly builders but some times plumbers & electricians) and I totally get these people aren't going to be fully on board with the email side of things. They just want to do the manual stuff. But it's part of the job as you say.

I shouldn't have to go chasing but I may fire off a text if I've had no contact by the time I finish work tomorrow.