qualified electricians and competent persons(old/new regs)

[nigelsz]

Look I dont want to cause a fierce debate on this issue i have seen all the arguments here and at screwfix forum bout the regs .new regs, and part p being delayed till july etc. However , can someone advise me in simple non qualified terms what I should do .??
1. I have almost rewired the house
2. I am in the process of doing loft extension
3. have applied for planning consents and building
regs approval etc..
So when the building regs man comes round and the planning dept
man does same are they gonna ask me for a certificate from a competent person or qualified electrician .??. If so it would make sense for me to get a man in to check my work and give me a certificate before I lay all the flooring to the loft and plasterboard same etc. At least if I get a man, or woman , in now He can trace all my work throughout and use his magic meters ,to boot
Given the fierce debate bout who" signs the forms "
Who in their right mind would do this ?
Where would I find this person ?and how much would he charge
for inspecting and signing?
If it helps I live in N.Ireland. Does delay to implementation of part p apply still.?? and finally I will be making sure i finish all this by july if it makes a difference.
ok I know you guys will do your best and i know Ihave asked for your help before and I hope by asking these questions it contributes to healthy debate and the giving of good advise by all you folks

cheers
NIGELSZ

 

[nigelsz]

PS. What forms or certificates need to be completed re electrical work that has been carried which are acceptable to regs men or surveyors or the leccy boards.??? any chance an example of a form or cert that applies could be pasted on to this board ??
thanks again
NIGELSZ

 

[ban-all-sheds]

...So when the building regs man comes round and the planning dept man does same are they gonna ask me for a certificate from a competent person or qualified electrician .??.

Doubt it - not yet, anyway.

If so it would make sense for me to get a man in to check my work and give me a certificate before I lay all the flooring to the loft and plasterboard same etc.

Not a bad idea anyway, if you're keen on eventually getting a certificate.

At least if I get a man, or woman , in now He can trace all my work throughout and use his magic meters ,to boot

True. Or you can buy your own set of "magic meters" - there's a constant stream of them on e-bay. You still won't be able to issue your own certificate, and you'll have to put some effort into learning how to use them, but it could give you a feeling of comfort that you'd done things OK.

Given the fierce debate bout who" signs the forms "
Who in their right mind would do this ?
Where would I find this person ?and how much would he charge for inspecting and signing?

Here I have to defer to the professionals. A lot of them are reluctant to inspect/test/certify someone elses installation, but that's exactly what they will be expected to do when Part P comes in. By that I don't mean that they will have to, what I mean is that the environment that Part P imagines is one where you can get your work inspected etc, and you can get a certificate issued. If (as seems likely) the existing Building Control depts won't have the expertise to do it, whose responsibility will it be to find someone who can do it? What if you don't live in a large town or city and none of the local sparks will do it? What if they decide to charge a fee which is out of all proportion to their fees for doing the installation too? Part P has already slipped because of the practicalities of just getting enough electricians registered as "competent" - I really don't think they've thought through the practicalities of getting Person A's work signed off by Person B, particularly if Person A is a DIY-er.

PS. What forms or certificates need to be completed re electrical work that has been carried which are acceptable to regs men or surveyors or the leccy boards.??? any chance an example of a form or cert that applies could be pasted on to this board ??

You can find downloadable ones on the IEE website.
Or you can buy real ones on e-bay

 

[il78]

If you have rewired your house you need to supply an Electrical Installation Certificate (this does not have to be NICEIC) although depends on what is required, this may be fine.

If NICEIC required you will have to get an NICEIC registered spark in to test the installation and they can then issue a Periodic Inspection Report but they "should" ask to see an Electrical Installation Certificate if the installation is less than a year old, but you might get away with it.

Smoke detectors usually come with some kind of certificate in the box

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh for heavens sake - I thought we'd stopped all that "must be NICEIC" nonsense - even MB's ramblings don't carry that false info any more.

 

[il78]

Oh for heavens sake - I thought we'd stopped all that "must be NICEIC" nonsense - even MB's ramblings don't carry that false info any more.

So if he requires a NICEIC Report.....who is he going to get in?

I also said depends on what he needs........

 

[BR]

Nigelsz, I cannot speak for the regulations your side of the border but may I advise you to at least have the rewire checked by an electrician. Yes, you can buy diy versions of some of the kit of 'magic meters' but I wouldn't recommend it. You'll probably find most electricians will inspect and test your wiring no problem but when it comes to issuing a third party completion certificate you may find reluctance. I myself would rarely issue such a certificate except in special circumstances (e.g If I knew the person who wired the house was competent but simply not qualified/registered) often times an electrician may issue a certificate but charge you well over the odds. The esb engineers in the republic can issue completion certificates and I would advise a householder to go to them. I do not know about NIE. If you need a certificate check them out.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Oh for heavens sake - I thought we'd stopped all that "must be NICEIC" nonsense - even MB's ramblings don't carry that false info any more.

So if he requires a NICEIC Report.....who is he going to get in?

I also said depends on what he needs........

I understand that he might need an EIC, or PIR, or whatever, but not why he would need one done by an NICEIC registered electrician as opposed to an ECA registered electrician, or a JIB/EAS (or whatever it is) registered electrician.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

.. Yes, you can buy diy versions of some of the kit of 'magic meters' but I wouldn't recommend it.

In passing - I was talking about the real ones - Robin/Megger/Metrohm/Seaward etc.

You'll probably find most electricians will inspect and test your wiring no problem but when it comes to issuing a third party completion certificate you may find reluctance. I myself would rarely issue such a certificate except in special circumstances (e.g If I knew the person who wired the house was competent but simply not qualified/registered) often times an electrician may issue a certificate but charge you well over the odds...

Precisely the things that worry me about the Part P regime, if it comes to pass in the form proposed.

 

[il78]

Oh for heavens sake - I thought we'd stopped all that "must be NICEIC" nonsense - even MB's ramblings don't carry that false info any more.

So if he requires a NICEIC Report.....who is he going to get in?

I also said depends on what he needs........

I understand that he might need an EIC, or PIR, or whatever, but not why he would need one done by an NICEIC registered electrician as opposed to an ECA registered electrician, or a JIB/EAS (or whatever it is) registered electrician.

Because most insurance / mortgage companies that I deal with will only accept NICEIC.....And your right it should'nt matter, but its the way it is.

Granted, he might not be dealing with anyone...so it dont matter.

 

[nigelsz]

The reason that i wanted to know all these matters and get forms/certificates signed is because Firstly I wanted to sleep easy at night not worrying bout me and family waking up dead in the morning and Secondly should I come to sell the house, I wanted to have all these certificates and things for all the main utilities in the house ready to hand so I could be sure of a quick sale with no delays because of surveyors doing their jobs(covering their asses) .and,Mortgage companies being their usual awkward selves when it comes to doing their best to drag their feet when granting the persons who may buy my house a mortgage.(no offence to surveyors by the way).
On a number of occasions now I have been selling a house and wanting a quick sale only to see the process dragged out ,sometimes for months, cos of "reports being called for ." I guess I would rather have all these things in place now rather than face the frustration of finding someone at a critical time ,such as a potential sale and maybe when I have my eyes set on another house . Not that I intend moving for a while .......lol
cheers again

nigelsz

 

[BR]

In passing - I was talking about the real ones - Robin/Megger/Metrohm/Seaward etc.

Well I don't think a house holder could justify paying so much for minimal use. Fluke also a very good make.

 

[sde1969]

You dont not need to be qualfied electrian or compentent person to do your own house but you be comply with the on-site-guide and new regs. If you do not comply then the building inspector etc will say no. On the other hand, ask a qualified electrician to inspect your work then the electrician can sign the testing and inspecting cert.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well - Robin/Fluke - same company now.

On eBay I've seen Robin 1610s go for as little as £275, Metrohm sets for around £200, and recently an Avo CM200 (admittedly this is an old design, but still does what you need) for £150.

When I was tracking them, I saw electrical companies buying the better stuff all the time.

And if someone is prepared to bide their time, buy individual instruments as and when bargains pop up, and doesn't mind slightly older kit, or a mix of makes, then a budget of £100-£150 should get them a set. At that price, assuming they work (which they almost certainly will, but they almost certainly won't have calibration certificates) they might well pay for themselves if they find a problem that would have necessitated a return visit by Mr Sparky.

There are currently around 40 testers up on eBay, plus a few vintage ones more of interest to collectors, with bids right now sitting at between £15 for a Megger RCD tester up to £335 for a very clean Robin KTS1620 with all accessories and a new calibration certificate.

 

[GwaiLo]

Nigel.

So when the building regs man comes round and the planning dept
man does same are they gonna ask me for a certificate from a competent person or qualified electrician ?

Depends on this. You say you have applied for building regulations consents. You will have done this either by making a full plans application or by using the building notice procedure.

If the former then you cannot be required to provide any form of certification, assuming that everything else in the application is approved. If the application is not approved for some reason then the regulations that will apply will be those current at the time that you revise your application or make a new one. Until Part P copmes into force the Building Control Officer has no right to ask you to prove anything in respect of the electrics.

If you have used the building notice procedure the work will be approved in stages as you do it. If the works are not complete before Part P comes into force then you will be required to demonstrate compliance with Part P. However, if the works are finished before then the Building Control Officer has no power require you prove anything in regards to electrics.

However, you then expand on the issue and say "The reason that i wanted to know all these matters and get forms/certificates signed is because Firstly I wanted to sleep easy at night not worrying bout me and family waking up dead in the morning and Secondly should I come to sell the house".

If you want no problems upon sale then get an installation certificate from an NICEIC registered electrician. Surveyors (such as I) prefer NICEIC to ECA or whatever not because they are "better" electricians, but because NICEIC inspect a number of installations carried out by the member each year, and so offer some quality control.