Question re New GCH Installation

[Rossua]

Yes - the path where the condensate pipe goes is a walkway

By 'no response' of electric shower I mean no indicator light goes on, no sound is heard, and no water flows, absolutely nothing happens. It was working perfectly before the GCH installation. I have no idea what they might have done to cause this.

The link to installer can be obtained by Googling :-
'DOMESTIC PLUMBING & HEATING (SCOTLAND) LTD'
(address : 12 Langlands Street, Dundee)

I thus have 3 issues - the shower, the copper pipe showing outside, and the condensate pipe stopping short of ground with no soakaway.

So they will not likely be too happy to hear from me tomorrow!

But I am hoping they can fix all three

 

[Dan Robinson]

For the umpteenth time, there is nothing wrong with the copper pipe. Yes the condensate drain needs sorting, but there is no point getting neurotic over things unnecessarily as it will lessen your position on the things that DO need addressing.

 

[FiremanT]

Yes - the path where the condensate pipe goes is a walkway

By 'no response' of electric shower I mean no indicator light goes on, no sound is heard, and no water flows, absolutely nothing happens. It was working perfectly before the GCH installation. I have no idea what they might have done to cause this.

The link to installer can be obtained by Googling :-
'DOMESTIC PLUMBING & HEATING (SCOTLAND) LTD'
(address : 12 Langlands Street, Dundee)

I thus have 3 issues - the shower, the copper pipe showing outside, and the condensate pipe stopping short of ground with no soakaway.

So they will not likely be too happy to hear from me tomorrow!

But I am hoping they can fix all three

Before shouting an getting angry: Is the shower electrical isolation switch on? It is very possible that it was turned off in error, as it is often in the airing cupboard near the boiler isolation. Worst case scenario is that they have pinched the supply for the boiler.

As at least Dan an I have said, covering the pipe is not their problem, and if they do it, you should be billed extra.

Rather than going mad, ask them if they intended to return to complete the soakaway - they might even have contractors for that element. Although that should obviously have been communicated, stuff does go wrong occasionally.

 

[Rossua]

I am certainly not planning to be angry with them - I will simply be asking if something can be done regarding these various issues that is all, and hopefully they will be OK about that.

Regarding the copper pipe - on driving past some neighbours houses today I noticed a couple of them with a gas pipe from gas box going some way up wall and into house, and this gas pipe was about same diameter as my copper pipe, and apparently painted black - so that would appear to be the done thing. The issue of some idiotic person trying to steal the pipe is a fact - there have been issues of burglary in my neighborhood recently, and also 'metal thieving'. What kind of paint would be most suitable ?

I agree I will lessen my position if I get too OCD over it, and I want to avoid that, I do not want to be an annoyance of a customer, only to get sorted what needs to be sorted.

FiremanT! You are a GENIUS sir, thank you so much - the shower electrical isolation switch WAS off. I had totally forgotten about this switch, a pull cord, in the bathroom by the door. I always have it on and so had completely forgotten all about it.

Thank you for the savvy advice - you guys ROCK! Now all I need to do is ask about the soakaway, and for that I have printed out a page of the Greenstar 32CDi Compact ErP Installation Manual which describes a soakaway installation - it is very similar to the image posted above by gasmanstu72 - I will see tomorrow what they say about it.

 

[FiremanT]

Rossi, this is like reading a book an finding the last page is missing.

 

[Rossua]

Apologies! - I have been working all weekend and not had a chance to post.

However they came up and fixed the condensate pipe, which now goes some way under the ground into the earth, and has been concreted over - though the guy did not put lime chippings onto it. I have trusted he has done it satisfactory, and hope there will not be any problem with it. I did some research and found the pH of the condensate is about 4.8, whilst rain PH is between 4.2 and 5.6 (ref http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/education/site_students/phscale.html)

depending on how acidic it is. The rain water is going to seep underground somewhow anyway and wash away with the condensate, and also the house is waterproofed below the ground level.

One point of confusion was re painting the copper gas pipe - the surveyor/boss guy said I shouldn't paint it and it would dull in time - and I think he said acid in the paint was bad for the copper pipe. However I asked the engineer who came up to fix the condensate pipe and he said I could paint it if I wanted with metallic paint. I notice that a couple of neighbors have black painted copper pipes.

The final issue is re the 'BOSCH gas boiler system commissioning checklist' - they have not mentioned this at all - but BOSCH say your warranty is invalidated if it is not filled in - so I will have to speak them about that - all they have asked for is the registration card.

All in all though they seem to have made a quite good job of the installation, and the advice I got re radiator placement and on re-routing some unsightly old gas pipes inside the house was very good

 

[MJGas]

Looks like theyve drilled a hole in that coupling so when it backs up it overflows out? And no its still not installed correctly if theyve not put a soakaway in and some limestone chippings

 

[Rossua]

There is no hole in the coupling - that is just part of the moulding (see photo).

I had a look for further info online and a 32kW boiler like mine discharges about 1-2 litre per hour of condensate when operating fully. Some people have had problems due to condensate pipe freezing and condensate backing up to boiler. Also I wondered if the pipe being stuck into the earth could cause it to back up to any extent. I have also read that it might be an idea to have an 'air break' somewhere in the pipe to prevent it backing up - I presume that means drilling a hole in the pipe somewhere.

It also occured to me it might be better NOT to have concrete over the top of the area where the pipe goes - because if it was just earth instead then rainwater would get into the area more easily and then neutralize the condensate ?

 

[bazdaman]

I bet they have jst broke through theconcrete and tuck the pipe in, it needs to be a purpoe made soakaway or one made from some soil pipe to the correct spec it Must have lime chipping and also be a certain distance from the house, still dosnt look right to me.
Make sure the benchmark is filled out in the installation instructions this is a mandatory requirement when fitting a boiler to say it has been fit correctly and manufacturers WILL invalidate the warranty of the boiler!

 

[gasmanstu72]

they've bodged that condensate pipe for sure,
they soakaway has to be at least 500mm from your house (a little under 2 feet), there's not any evidence that i can see of them digging anything up that far away.
i bet all he did was to dig a small hole next to the wall and tuck the end of the pipe below the surface, thats no good.

get them back again!

 

[bernardgreen]

In freezing cold weather the trickle of water in that condensate pipe will freeze and eventually block the pipe. The condensate sump in the boiler will then become flooded and the boiler will at best shut down ( safety device operates ) or at worst the burner / heat exchanger will also become flooded and damaged.

Thawing out that length of plastic pipe will be a nightmare task. And it will just freeze again.

It should have been run inside the house with the absolute minimum exposed outside the house. It could be routed to discharge into a sink or bath drain pipe. Then the risk of freezing is almost zero.

An air break at the point the pipe leaves the house ( such as a tundish ) will provide a route for condensate when the pipe freezes but will mean some staining on the brick work when condensate runs down it. ( but at least the boiler will still be working. )

 

[Biggles..]

Simple answer to this is when your shiny building refs compliance certificate arrives through your door, it will be accompanied by an invitation for a free inspection by Gas Safe.

Take the opportunity to have the inspection done, any issues and they'll make sure the installer is back pdq to sort them out.

 

[Phill Peck]

Simple answer to this is when your shiny building refs compliance certificate arrives through your door, it will be accompanied by an invitation for a free inspection by Gas Safe.

Take the opportunity to have the inspection done, any issues and they'll make sure the installer is back pdq to sort them out.

I wish more people would take gas safe up on this offer. Would stop installers cutting corners if they actually knew Gassafe would likely be following up to pick fault

 

[Dan Robinson]

Wouldn't stop cheapskate customers trying to get the engineers to cut corners though .

 

[Rossua]

In freezing cold weather the trickle of water in that condensate pipe will freeze and eventually block the pipe. The condensate sump in the boiler will then become flooded and the boiler will at best shut down ( safety device operates ) or at worst the burner / heat exchanger will also become flooded and damaged.

Thawing out that length of plastic pipe will be a nightmare task. And it will just freeze again.

It should have been run inside the house with the absolute minimum exposed outside the house. It could be routed to discharge into a sink or bath drain pipe. Then the risk of freezing is almost zero.

An air break at the point the pipe leaves the house ( such as a tundish ) will provide a route for condensate when the pipe freezes but will mean some staining on the brick work when condensate runs down it. ( but at least the boiler will still be working. )

Re the air break - in the photo below what if I drilled a hole on the upper side of the pipe at the horizontal section where it leaves the house, so that in the event of freezing it would not back up but exit through the hole? It would obviously then run down the side of the house, but that would only be in the fairly unusual circumstances of the pipe freezing in the winter. I have never had any frozen pipes before in my home but are these condensate pipes more prone to freezing?