Quick Part P quesiton

[iwaters]

Hi,

I am fitting a new kitchen and part of that I am moving a socket that was installed on a spur by the previous owner of the house. The socket is surface mounted in the base cabinet directly under the sink (nice one!) and has a fused switch above the counter. I want to move the socket to a flush mounted socket behind the dishwasher maintaining the switch above the counter. As I am not adding another socket, simply moving it am I right in thinking that this is not notifiable?

Cheers

 

[ricicle]

You are not maintaining or replacing like for like, you are altering the circuit so therefore it is notifiable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As long as you don't add any new fixed cabling it will not be notifiable.

Will the new position be directly under the switch? With surface mounted cables you can run them anywhere, but if you are going to conceal them there are rules to be aware of:

• http://www.voltimum.co.uk/files/gb/attachments/niu/l/attachments/c5-43.pdf
• http://web.archive.org/web/20061110111450/http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/concealedcables.pdf
• IEE article
• IEE Article on 17th Edition requirements for concealed cables.

Also, is the socket circuit RCD protected?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You are not maintaining or replacing like for like, you are altering the circuit so therefore it is notifiable.

Where does the term "like for like" appear in the Building Regulations?

 

[dizz]

Nice Links BAS

From Part P Document :

QUOTE

Work that need not be notified to Building Control

The following work need not be notifed to building control:-

Electrical Work in all locations

* Replacing any electrical fitting eg socket-outlets, control switches and ceiling roses.
* Replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged, for example, by fire, rodent or impact.
* Re-fixing or replacing the enclosures of existing installation components.
* Providing mechanical protection to existing fixed installations

UNQUOTE

Conclusion

Scenario 1 - "Existing cable is long enough"
Pulling out existing enclosure, keeping existing cable connected and re-fixing somewhere does not appear to contravene above.

Scenario 2 - "Existing cable not long enough"
If a rat has eaten part of your cable or you accidentally put a nail through it => your cable is damaged => you can replced it - doesn't say you cannot put a longer bit of cable in its place, or swing it round to a different location to re-fix it - you are simply re-fixing/replacing the enclosure? Doesn't seem to contravene above.

 

[chapeau]

Approved Document P says that any replacement cable has to follow the same route. So strictly speaking you would be more likely to be in compliance with the law by notifying. It's really the under the sink bit which catches you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But the law does not say that any replacement cable has to follow the same route.

And in fact, if a cable had been damaged because it was in the wrong place it would actually be illegal to put the replacement in the same place.

 

[ricicle]

You are not maintaining or replacing like for like, you are altering the circuit so therefore it is notifiable.

Where does the term "like for like" appear in the Building Regulations?

Don't be such a pedant. You know what I mean - ie replacing an electrical fitting.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is far from pedantry.

You said that because he was not replacing "like for like" it was notifiable.

The issue of notifiable/non-notifiable is exactly what he was asking about, so any reasons for it being one or the other are of vital importance, and it cannot possibly be regarded as pedantry to want to get it right.

So I repeat - where does the term "like for like" appear in the Building Regulations?

 

[ricicle]

Ok - so the wording 'like for like' does not appear. But before we go into one of the long winded debates that frequently occur on here shall we, as intelligent people, take it that the statement 'replacing any electrical fitting.....' is meaning of the same type ? (not manufacturer but characteristics)
Or shall we pull to pieces the Building Regulations with semantics. Yes if the cable is exactly the same length then perhaps it is not altering the circuit and perhaps it might be making it safer - but if the cable is slightly longer has he not now changed the circuit characteristics. How far do we run with this ?
Or shall we say carry on, as nothing you are doing is going to affect the safety of the installation ?

 

[RF Lighting]

Quick Part P quesiton

Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[Stoday]

This is a DIY forum; notification costs a DIYer £100 or so, which makes the issue of notification financially important. Any excuse to avoid notification costing £100 is worth exploiting.

The fact that the Building Regs themselves and the AD are worded differently means that you can quote whichever allows you to avoid notification. Adding restricting words, such as "like for like" is plain silly if it costs £100.

 

[Mark Elvin]

I wonder how mant home owners actually even know about the regs & carry on with kitchen wiring mods willy and indeed nilly.

 

[Paul_C]

I wonder how mant home owners actually even know about the regs & carry on with kitchen wiring mods willy and indeed nilly.

And the ambiguous nature of some of the wording in the exemptions coupled with petty things which make the difference between being legally notifiable or not notifiable just show what a complete farce the whole thing is.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

shall we, as intelligent people, take it that the statement 'replacing any electrical fitting.....' is meaning of the same type ? (not manufacturer but characteristics)

Sounds reasonable.

So having done that, what then makes this notifiable:

The socket is surface mounted....I want to move the socket to a flush mounted socket behind the dishwasher maintaining the switch above the counter.

?

Or shall we pull to pieces the Building Regulations with semantics.

Why don't we just read what they say?

Yes if the cable is exactly the same length then perhaps it is not altering the circuit and perhaps it might be making it safer - but if the cable is slightly longer has he not now changed the circuit characteristics. How far do we run with this ?

We run as far as 1(a)(i) in Schedule 2B, or 1(b) if the existing cable is damaged.

Or shall we say carry on, as nothing you are doing is going to affect the safety of the installation ?

No, we point out that even non-notifiable work has to comply with P1.