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Try to give us a few things off that list that the UK could have done, and did do, without EU help or prompting.
We already did with the animal welfare. We are still up on top now, compared to other countries, including those in the EU, with welfare for animals. We started that way of thinking by changing our own laws before the EU was a twinkle in the eye, so I think it's a fair assumption to say we didn't need the EU to do that.
 
For example, the UK had more than a hundred years when it could have brought in a "clean, sewage-free beaches with drinking water and WCs" scheme, but it didn't
How long did it take the EEC/EC/EU to come up with it then?

It could never have brought in a "no excessive charges on mobile phones in other countries" law.
But the U.K. in cooperation with other countries could have achieved the same thing. Although what you call excessive in this respect is often a matter of opinion. But the EU still cannot bring in a law which has any effect in non-EU contries.

It couldn't have brought in a "freedom to live, work or invest in other countries" law
But nations simply coming to agreements, without the EU, could have done. Just like the U.K. government and the new Irish government did almost a century ago.

It couldn't have brought in a "Europe-wide patent and copyright protection" law
Again, countries working together could have done so without the EU expense and bureaucracy. And look at the effect that the most restrictive copyright laws had.

It couldn't have brought in "no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market"
No paperwork? How about the extensive VAT reporting which is demanded for EU trade?

It couldn't have brought European countries so close together that war between them would be unthinkable.
Give a few decades, and the EU might just be the cause of World War III.

Try to give us a few things off that list that the UK could have done, and did do, without EU help or prompting.
How about everything that the U.K. did up until 1972?
 
For example, the UK had more than a hundred years when it could have brought in a "clean, sewage-free beaches with drinking water and WCs" scheme, but it didn't

It could never have brought in a "no excessive charges on mobile phones in other countries" law.

It couldn't have brought in a "freedom to live, work or invest in other countries" law

It couldn't have brought in a "Europe-wide patent and copyright protection" law

It couldn't have brought in "no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market"

It couldn't have brought European countries so close together that war between them would be unthinkable.

Try to give us a few things off that list that the UK could have done, and did do, without EU help or prompting.

- no excessive charges - not really important is it? But how about the very basic, don't use a mobile overseas or buy a local sim card for local rates?

- freedom to invest is easier, but doesn't mean impossible. If someone has something to sell us or visa versa that they want, folk will trade. To live and work in other countries is not impossible! Folk work all over the world in various countries, that's what working visas are for. Places like Australia and the USA don't seem to have troubles getting good world-wide workers in if they want them do they? The EU just makes it easier, but it doesn't make it the only option.

- Europe wide patient & copyright law - not really a good idea anyway

- ha, paperwork means accountability.

- War between countries, now perhaps I may see a point on this one. But I think war is always possible, as is the chance that we finally had enough? I don't have a crystal ball to see in the past or the future and I also do not think that the rest of Europe will want to wage war on the UK if it wanted to leave the EU.
 
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For example, the UK had more than a hundred years when it could have brought in a "clean, sewage-free beaches with drinking water and WCs" scheme, but it didn't

It could never have brought in a "no excessive charges on mobile phones in other countries" law.

It couldn't have brought in a "freedom to live, work or invest in other countries" law

It couldn't have brought in a "Europe-wide patent and copyright protection" law

It couldn't have brought in "no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market"

It couldn't have brought European countries so close together that war between them would be unthinkable.

Try to give us a few things off that list that the UK could have done, and did do, without EU help or prompting.
The world was a better place before they introduced cheap mobile phone calls. Nothing worse than being on holiday and some shrieking harpy is on the phone near you telling her friend back home how drunk she got last night.

We have always been able to live and work in other countries

If there is no paperwork on imports, then how will they check shipments of weapons and explosives through the EU?

I don't know if you have noticed but several countries are on the verge of civil war that will spread throughout Europe. The EU is promoting both this and the rise of the far right
 
Try to give us a few things off that list that the UK could have done, and did do, without EU help or prompting.
How about everything that the U.K. did up until 1972?

Well go on then, list them.
Come on John, being a bit flippant now aren't ya? How about any thoughts on the lists we've already given back to you on your request, instead of just asking for endless more lists? Please debate, properly!
 
Yes, really, do you really think that the U.K. government never did anything good by itself prior to 1973? Britain has a pretty long history.....
 
A reply, like Mitch's about blue flag, saying the UK had more than a hundred years to do it, and didn't, and could have done it alone, but didn't need to because the EU brought it in, is very unconvincing.

A reply, like the ones about the failure or impossibility of the UK preventing mobile phone companies overcharging their customers, which avoids the issue, is very unconvincing.

A reply like PBC's which, when asked for examples, just throws in vague flannel, is very unconvincing.

Obviously I'm not expecting anything sensible from Fire and Grouch, because he's just a troll.
 
- no excessive charges - not really important is it? But how about the very basic, don't use a mobile overseas or buy a local sim card for local rates?
Indeed, it's hardly earth-shattering considering that the majority of people didn't even have mobile phones until very recent times, and the costs of using them had already been coming down considerably.

The world was a better place before they introduced cheap mobile phone calls..
That's for sure. Mobile phones have plenty of good uses and have undoubtedly been life-savers, but compared to the cost of everything else these days, the calls are really too cheap in my opinion, and that's what's encouraged the indiscriminate use of them anywhere and everywhere. And because of that, the ridiculous attachment that some people seem to have to them even when supposedly performing other tasks has become worrying, such as the case I just mentioned elsewhere in which I nearly flattened some guy in a Raley's parking lot a few weeks ago because he was so intent on staring at his stupid cellphone that he just walked out right in front of me. Specifying a minimum per-minute call charge and outlawing unlimited calling plans would actually have been doing the world a favor!
 
A reply, like the ones about the failure or impossibility of the UK preventing mobile phone companies overcharging their customers, which avoids the issue, is very unconvincing.
Who says they were ovecharging their customers? Don't you think a private company has every right to charge whatever it thinks the market will bear for its services?

A reply like PBC's which, when asked for examples, just throws in vague flannel, is very unconvincing.
Let's pick just one thing related to the environment to be going on with then: The Clean Air Act 1956.
 
Hi, thought I'd might give an alternative view, the EU is not perfect, my personel view is we would be better in the EU than out, I just find most of the comments on GD are overwhelmingly right wing and doesn't hurt to have another opinion. It's my view and doesn't hurt go try and balance things. If you are happy reading The Sun and the rest of similar rags, good luck to you.
 
For example, the UK had more than a hundred years when it could have brought in a "clean, sewage-free beaches with drinking water and WCs" scheme, but it didn't
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A reply, like Mitch's about blue flag, saying the UK had more than a hundred years to do it, and didn't, and could have done it alone, but didn't need to because the EU brought it in, is very unconvincing.

A reply, like the ones about the failure or impossibility of the UK preventing mobile phone companies overcharging their customers, which avoids the issue, is very unconvincing.

A reply like PBC's which, when asked for examples, just throws in vague flannel, is very unconvincing.

Obviously I'm not expecting anything sensible from Fire and Grouch, because he's just a troll.

So from 1916 britain didn't do anything about blue flag beaches, pollution etc etc for goodness sake stop clutching at straws.
You're been ridiculous, back then do you really think they were aware of environmental impact as we are now ?
 
The blue flag scheme is available world-wide now, and yes, it was pushed by the European Commission, isn't it more of a really good job at PR and development?

Europe, and most of the world, have slowly woken up to environmental issues, would this not have happened naturally anyway? I personally think it was a possibility as even the likes of the USA, far away from the EU, are in talks about the environment.
A reply, like Mitch's about blue flag, saying the UK had more than a hundred years to do it, and didn't, and could have done it alone, but didn't need to because the EU brought it in, is very unconvincing.

A reply, like the ones about the failure or impossibility of the UK preventing mobile phone companies overcharging their customers, which avoids the issue, is very unconvincing.

A reply like PBC's which, when asked for examples, just throws in vague flannel, is very unconvincing.

Obviously I'm not expecting anything sensible from Fire and Grouch, because he's just a troll.
 
Hi, thought I'd might give an alternative view, the EU is not perfect, my personel view is we would be better in the EU than out, I just find most of the comments on GD are overwhelmingly right wing and doesn't hurt to have another opinion. It's my view and doesn't hurt go try and balance things. If you are happy reading The Sun and the rest of similar rags, good luck to you.
An alternative view is always welcome, however your final sentence does suggest that you will soon be abusing folk the same way that JohnD and Himaginn do to get your socialist point across I don't really read newspapers as they are cheap rags... Even the Morning Star
 
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