RCD Tripping - Electrician can't help!!

[bernardgreen]

Is it feasible to use a clamp ammeter on the earth wire from each circuit to see what they are?

Not accurate as there are parallel paths to earth via supplimentary bonding and pipe work in general. Also the earth current may be through damp brickwork or other material straight to ground and not flowing along the CPC at all.

Better to put the clamp round live and neutral and look for a zero value.

 

[ChrisR]

It could be something simple like one of the rcd neutrals being put in with the non-rcd neutrals. I have seen that done on many an occasion.

Wouldn't it always trip in that case (scuse, me, I'm a plumber)

Better to put the clamp round live and neutral and look for a zero value.

Makes sense, thanks. I've got one which resolves to 1mA. I've tried it in boilers on fans pumps and solenoids but there's always too much magnetic field too close.

 

[Softus]

(scuse, me, I'm a plumber)

I've got some ointment that'll clear that up in no time.

 

[ricicle]

Makes sense, thanks. I've got one which resolves to 1mA. I've tried it in boilers on fans pumps and solenoids but there's always too much magnetic field too close.

If possible you could always put in a temporary link and bring it away from the magnetic fields.You can also make more than one loop and put the clamp around all of them.You then divide the reading by the number of loops in the clamp

 

[equitum]

Showers do not need to be RCD protected to comply, but IMO are best protected, and most manuals for showers do tell you to..

Check the regs ! [601-09-02]

 

[Softus]

Showers do not need to be RCD protected to comply, but IMO are best protected, and most manuals for showers do tell you to..

Check the regs !

The regs don't mandate this yet !

 

[Lectrician]

Showers do not need to be RCD protected to comply, but IMO are best protected, and most manuals for showers do tell you to..

Check the regs !

I suggest you do

 

[equitum]

I did - 601-09-02

not verbatim but along the lines of ....fixed electrical equipment installed in zone 1 must be protected by RCD 30ma ...

 

[Softus]

I did - 601-09-02

not verbatim but along the lines of ....fixed electrical equipment installed in zone 1 must be protected by RCD 30ma ...

Is the following the verbatim version?

601-09-02
Certain equipment in bathrooms and shower rooms must be protected by a 30mA RCD. For example, a 230V fan in zone 1 of a bathroom, that cannot be located elsewhere, must be protected by a 30mA device and must have an IP rating of at least IPX4 (IPX5 if hosed down).

601-08-02
Mains-supplied socket-outlets in bedrooms with showers must be protected by an RCD. Note that such socket-outlets must be located outside of the zones.

I can't find anything that defines a shower as being in the category of "certain equipment".

 

[ricicle]

I,m getting a sense of 'de ja vous' here...........

 

[Softus]

Well 'de ja vous aussi'!

Or did you mean 'déjà vu' ?

Any road up - if this has been covered before, which I can easily believe, what was the conclusion then?

 

[ricicle]

Well 'de ja vous aussi'!

Or did you mean 'déjà vu' ?

Any road up - if this has been covered before, which I can easily believe, what was the conclusion then?

Desolee (sp) Monsieur Softus

I hate to disapoint but I don't think there was one then

 

[vincentbrown]

Thanks to all of you that are offering suggestions, it is most appreciated.

To answer some of the questions-

1. I did suspect the kettle a while back and replaced it - it wasn't the kettle!
2. The electric shower is always turned off at the double pole switch.
3. There is deffinately no day/night or time of day pattern - In the last 24 hours, we have had four trips - approx 02:30 Saturday morning, 08:35 Saturday morning, 07:10 Saturday evening and finally approx 05:00 Sunday morning.
4. There is no nearby industry and the neighbours are all OK.
5. The RCD does not have the earth wire shown in the linked post
6. I am in south Leicestershire
7. I am using the timeswitch on the immersion heater to determine approximate trip times

Taking into account what has been posted, I have done the following today:

1. Switched off the power to my two sheds via a Double pole fused switched spur

2. Removed the conservatory ring main by disconnecting both the live and neutral from the CU. Part of this circuit is also an outside power point feeding a pond pump and outside lights. This is done via an MK Masterseal combined timer/socket feeding a second double masterseal socket, which I am now suspecting due to the fact that it was fitted at the same time as the conservatory.

Once again, thanks for all the info so far, I will report back how things progress from here!!

 

[equitum]

I did - 601-09-02

not verbatim but along the lines of ....fixed electrical equipment installed in zone 1 must be protected by RCD 30ma ...

Is the following the verbatim version?

601-09-02
Certain equipment in bathrooms and shower rooms must be protected by a 30mA RCD. For example, a 230V fan in zone 1 of a bathroom, that cannot be located elsewhere, must be protected by a 30mA device and must have an IP rating of at least IPX4 (IPX5 if hosed down).

601-08-02
Mains-supplied socket-outlets in bedrooms with showers must be protected by an RCD. Note that such socket-outlets must be located outside of the zones.

I can't find anything that defines a shower as being in the category of "certain equipment".

Dont know what regs you use, I tend to follow the 16th edition, and in my version of the IEE wiring regulations 601-09-02 states (verbatim)..

"The following fixed current using equipment may be installed in zone 1 if it is suitable for that zone:

(i) A water heater
(ii) A shower pump
(iii) Other fixed current using equipment which can reasonably only be located in zone 1 provided that
A) It is suitable for the conditions oof that zone
B) The supply circuit is additionally protected by an rcd with rated residual current not exceeding 30ma in accordance with regulation 412-06.
(iv) SELV current using equipment"

I guess the debate is whether an electric shower can be classified as a water heater (or shower pump)....having reread the regulation (can't work out where you are getting your version from, is it the on site guide ?) I am not so sure, as usual there is a degree of interpretation. I will ask the niceic for there interpretation!

 

[Softus]

Well, that's unambiguous IMHO, but I'd wandered somewhat off track anyway, because the IEE Regs aren't law [yet].

I expect that most people would agree that it's best practise to protect a shower circuit with an RCD, and, given that most MIs recommend it, it would be crazy not to.