Re-siting switch from hallway to bedroom

[karlywarly]

Hi Everyone,

In my hallway i have a double switch, 1 switch operates the light in the hallway and the other operates the light in the main bedroom. In the bedroom i have a pull-cord switch.

I would like to remove the pull-cord switch in the bedroom and add a switch near the door in the main bedroom and remove the option to turn the light on from the double switch in the hallway so you can only turn the light on from within the bedroom and.

How is the best way to go about this?

Thanks

 

[riveralt]

I assume you have access to the area above the hallway and main bedroom.
From what you say you currently have a main bedroom light that operates in a two way fashion via the pull cord and outside hallway switch. You want to replace that with a one way light system that operates the main bedroom lamp solely from a switch in the main bedroom.
Turn the power off.
Open the double gang switch in the hallway - identify the gang that operates the main bedroom light - clearly photograph how the wires are postioned - which terminal they go into.
Do the same for the pull switch and the ceiling rose for the light. The colour of the cables and how they are wired will determine the best way to wire the new circuit.
To do what you want to do you will need to run new 1mm2 Twin and Earth cable from the loft area down the bedroom wall to where you want to the new switch located - this will mean chasing out the wall.
In part it will depend on how the old 2 way system is wired but hopefully the new cable will simply go from the new switch to the ceiling rose of the main bedroom light.

 

[karlywarly]

I assume you have access to the area above the hallway and main bedroom.
From what you say you currently have a main bedroom light that operates in a two way fashion via the pull cord and outside hallway switch. You want to replace that with a one way light system that operates the main bedroom lamp solely from a switch in the main bedroom.
Turn the power off.
Open the double gang switch in the hallway - identify the gang that operates the main bedroom light - clearly photograph how the wires are postioned - which terminal they go into.
Do the same for the pull switch and the ceiling rose for the light. The colour of the cables and how they are wired will determine the best way to wire the new circuit.
To do what you want to do you will need to run new 1mm2 Twin and Earth cable from the loft area down the bedroom wall to where you want to the new switch located - this will mean chasing out the wall.
In part it will depend on how the old 2 way system is wired but hopefully the new cable will simply go from the new switch to the ceiling rose of the main bedroom light.

Thanks for your reply.

We have old cabling as can be seen in the following images.

Here is the image of my double switch in the hallway:
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/9833/img0605e.jpg

The switch to the right in the picture controls the light in the main bedroom.

Link to the image of the pull-cord switch in main bedroom:
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/440/img0606vs.jpg

Link to image of the ceiling rose in main bedroom:
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/2453/img0607e.jpg

Both rooms will be re plastered soon and there is a stud partition in between the hallway and main bedroom where the light switch will go.

Hope this helps

Sorry forgot to say that i have access to the ceiling from the loft.

Thanks

 

[Chri5]

If the hall switch position is ok, would the other side of the wall as in back to back be viable?

If so you could take the wires from that switch and connect them via a cable block and hole through the back in to your 'new' location on the other side.

As for the pull cord, remove the cord and retain the switch for possible future use?

 

[karlywarly]

If the hall switch position is ok, would the other side of the wall as in back to back be viable?

If so you could take the wires from that switch and connect them via a cable block and hole through the back in to your 'new' location on the other side.

As for the pull cord, remove the cord and retain the switch for possible future use?

This wouldn't really be possible as the double switch is on a different wall than the stud partition.

I would just rather remove what isn't necessary as it would have no future use to be honest.

Could i not just remove the existing cable that is connected from the double switch in the hall to the pull-cord switch and ceiling rose in the bedroom and then re-route a new cable from what will then be a single switch in the hall to a new switch in the main bedroom and then wire the ceiling rose up from that?

 

[riveralt]

Okay your problem is that you have the live power coming into the switch - the red cable top right Common terminal - with, what we call strappers (red = L1 terminal and black = L2 terminal) or vice versa that link directly to the pull switch red = L1 and black = L2 terminals. The other red cable at the pull switch appears to go to the lamps live terminal at the ceiling rose.

Question though - in the picture of the ceiling rose it appears that the black cable is not actually connected to the neutral side of the lamp - is that correct or is it, I hope, an optical illusion?
If it is connected I will walk you through your options.

 

[Chri5]

Since you only have one cable at the ceiling rose there will be a junction box somewhere in the loft, go to the loft ceiling rose location and trace the cable back to the junction.

At the junction you will have a cable for the circuit (LNE), the cable for the ceiling rose and a third cable which will be the existing cabling for the switch.

Remove the switch cable and replace it with a new one to the new location.

 

[karlywarly]

Okay your problem is that you have the live power coming into the switch - the red cable top right Common terminal - with, what we call strappers (red = L1 terminal and black = L2 terminal) or vice versa that link directly to the pull switch red = L1 and black = L2 terminals. The other red cable at the pull switch appears to go to the lamps live terminal at the ceiling rose.

Question though - in the picture of the ceiling rose it appears that the black cable is not actually connected to the neutral side of the lamp - is that correct or is it, I hope, an optical illusion?
If it is connected I will walk you through your options.

Yes apologies for the picture, just checked again and the black cable is connected to neutral.

 

[riveralt]

Okay your problem is that you have the live power coming into the switch - the red cable top right Common terminal - with, what we call strappers (red = L1 terminal and black = L2 terminal) or vice versa that link directly to the pull switch red = L1 and black = L2 terminals. The other red cable at the pull switch appears to go to the lamps live terminal at the ceiling rose.

Question though - in the picture of the ceiling rose it appears that the black cable is not actually connected to the neutral side of the lamp - is that correct or is it, I hope, an optical illusion?
If it is connected I will walk you through your options.

Yes apologies for the picture, just checked again and the black cable is connected to neutral.

You first of all need to remove the red link cable from the double gang switch – then move the top right red cable to the Common Terminal on the new switch.
Do the same for the hallway switch L1 (lower left red) put it in the L1 on the new switch.
This will give power solely to the hallway switch.
Then assuming that they are directly linked you can then disconnect the other red/black cable from the bedroom switch and the same at the pull switch.
Then assuming that the remaining single red cable at the pull switch goes to the ceiling rose – disconnect that at the pull switch and the ceiling rose.
Remove the pull switch.

Position the new switch where you want it and connect new Twin and Earth 1mm2 cable to it. Put the brown in Common and the blue (with brown sleeving) in L1 – sleeved earth to the back box.
Run the new cable into the loft with a lot of slack.
There are several ways to do the next bit.

I would suggest that find a nearby ceiling rose and run a T&E 1mm2 cable from it to the bedroom ceiling rose.
Connect the brown cable to the central three live loop terminals on both ceiling roses – do the same for the blue neutral loop terminals and the sleeved earth loop terminals.
Leave the old neutral cable alone.

Bring the switch cable up to the bedroom ceiling and connect the brown cable to one of the central three terminals with the other brown.
Connect the blue (with brown sleeving) to the ceiling rose lamps live terminal (brown) that runs down the cable to the light.

 

[karlywarly]

Okay your problem is that you have the live power coming into the switch - the red cable top right Common terminal - with, what we call strappers (red = L1 terminal and black = L2 terminal) or vice versa that link directly to the pull switch red = L1 and black = L2 terminals. The other red cable at the pull switch appears to go to the lamps live terminal at the ceiling rose.

Question though - in the picture of the ceiling rose it appears that the black cable is not actually connected to the neutral side of the lamp - is that correct or is it, I hope, an optical illusion?
If it is connected I will walk you through your options.

Yes apologies for the picture, just checked again and the black cable is connected to neutral.

You first of all need to remove the red link cable from the double gang switch – then move the top right red cable to the Common Terminal on the new switch.
Do the same for the hallway switch L1 (lower left red) put it in the L1 on the new switch.
This will give power solely to the hallway switch.
Then assuming that they are directly linked you can then disconnect the other red/black cable from the bedroom switch and the same at the pull switch.
Then assuming that the remaining single red cable at the pull switch goes to the ceiling rose – disconnect that at the pull switch and the ceiling rose.
Remove the pull switch.

Position the new switch where you want it and connect new Twin and Earth 1mm2 cable to it. Put the brown in Common and the blue (with brown sleeving) in L1 – sleeved earth to the back box.
Run the new cable into the loft with a lot of slack.
There are several ways to do the next bit.

I would suggest that find a nearby ceiling rose and run a T&E 1mm2 cable from it to the bedroom ceiling rose.
Connect the brown cable to the central three live loop terminals on both ceiling roses – do the same for the blue neutral loop terminals and the sleeved earth loop terminals.
Leave the old neutral cable alone.

Bring the switch cable up to the bedroom ceiling and connect the brown cable to one of the central three terminals with the other brown.
Connect the blue (with brown sleeving) to the ceiling rose lamps live terminal (brown) that runs down the cable to the light.

Managed to disconnect the ceiling rose and pull switch in the bedroom and swap the double in to a single switch without any problems.

With regards to running a cable from another ceiling rose, the back bedroom doesn't have a ceiling rose and has a fixed light instead.

Would this cause any issues or is this the same?

 

[riveralt]

Managed to disconnect the ceiling rose and pull switch in the bedroom and swap the double in to a single switch without any problems.

With regards to running a cable from another ceiling rose, the back bedroom doesn't have a ceiling rose and has a fixed light instead.

Would this cause any issues or is this the same?

No as long as you can access a permanent live loop (not a switch live), neutral loop and earth at one of the fixed lamps and cable that across to the ceiling rose in the bedroom.
Look at wiki here -

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:single_way_lighting
the only difference is that the diagrams show the ceiling rose/junction box or terminal strip you are taking the power from 'to the supply to the next light' which is your bedroom ceiling rose.
Work safe and not live!

 

[karlywarly]

Managed to disconnect the ceiling rose and pull switch in the bedroom and swap the double in to a single switch without any problems.

With regards to running a cable from another ceiling rose, the back bedroom doesn't have a ceiling rose and has a fixed light instead.

Would this cause any issues or is this the same?

No as long as you can access a permanent live loop (not a switch live), neutral loop and earth at one of the fixed lamps and cable that across to the ceiling rose in the bedroom.
Look at wiki here -

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:single_way_lighting
the only difference is that the diagrams show the ceiling rose/junction box or terminal strip you are taking the power from 'to the supply to the next light' which is your bedroom ceiling rose.
Work safe and not live!

Ive decided that the best way for me is to get a feed from the hallway light as it is next to the bedroom although this has no earth either and it could appear that the whole lighting ring has no earth after having checked a couple of rooms upstairs.

I think i could be misunderstanding something with regards to earthing?

I live in an old terraced house and it doesn't look like its been re-wired for years due to the colours of the cables.

 

[riveralt]

Ive decided that the best way for me is to get a feed from the hallway light as it is next to the bedroom although this has no earth either and it could appear that the whole lighting ring has no earth after having checked a couple of rooms upstairs.
I think i could be misunderstanding something with regards to earthing?
I live in an old terraced house and it doesn't look like its been re-wired for years due to the colours of the cables.

Around here houses built up to around 1965/9 were not required to have their lighting circuits earthed (Cannot give you an exact date when the regulations changed)- your house could fall into that category.
Current regulations require a cpc (earth) for the lighting circuit but these regulations are not retrospective. So there is no regulatory need to upgrade.
My advice would always be to get the lighting circuit up to current standard in so far as the cpc is concerned. But generally for lighting circuits that don't have a cpc you should avoid metal light fittings/switches and stick with plastic versions of the same or class 2 light fittings like the ones shown here.
http://www.warmmead.co.uk/lights-with-no-earth.htm

 

[karlywarly]

Ive decided that the best way for me is to get a feed from the hallway light as it is next to the bedroom although this has no earth either and it could appear that the whole lighting ring has no earth after having checked a couple of rooms upstairs.
I think i could be misunderstanding something with regards to earthing?
I live in an old terraced house and it doesn't look like its been re-wired for years due to the colours of the cables.

Around here houses built up to around 1965/9 were not required to have their lighting circuits earthed (Cannot give you an exact date when the regulations changed)- your house could fall into that category.
Current regulations require a cpc (earth) for the lighting circuit but these regulations are not retrospective. So there is no regulatory need to upgrade.
My advice would always be to get the lighting circuit up to current standard in so far as the cpc is concerned. But generally for lighting circuits that don't have a cpc you should avoid metal light fittings/switches and stick with plastic versions of the same or class 2 light fittings like the ones shown here.
http://www.warmmead.co.uk/lights-with-no-earth.htm[/QUOTE]

I feel it would be more beneficial if i added an earth to the lighting circuit as i would like to replace some of my lighting to chrome fire rated fixed down lights.

I have done some more investigating in the loft and have found a junction box which there is a picture of this below that has been taken.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/2691/img0649z.jpg

I am presuming that to add the earth to the upstairs lighting circuit, this will need to be re-wired from the fuse box?

We also have an old wire fuse box if this helps.

 

[Chri5]

Bit weird than jb, you have 3 earths connected, none are green yellow sleeved.

The odd bit is the cable at 6 o'clock that has no earth, or appears to have no earth. Thing is the cables all look of the same age, I suspect the cable without an earth may have had one, and it's been cut back.

Isolate circuit and strip back another inch of sheath from the no earth cable, with luck youre expose one

.

At the same time get the existing earths sleeved, and rub the ends with wire wool or anything abrasive to brighten up the wire that will be re terminated.