Refusing to refund or replace!

[DRM]

I bought a £900 TV from a big company online and collected it from one of their stores at the end of June.

This TV developed a major fault 3 weeks after purchase.

I phoned their customer care centre and was instructed to return the TV to the same store where it would be tested and if found to be faulty I would receive a new replacement.

I did this straight away, but when I got there, they said it would have to go back to the distribution centre then they would send out the new set to the store for collection and this process would take 3 days.

I agreed to this, but was never contacted so I phoned their call centre a couple of times only to be fobbed off.

I was fed up of trying to get through on the phone so started to send emails instead.

This is when I discovered that the set had been lost in transit and they had started an investigation with their courier with no indication of how long this will take.

In the meantime they are refusing to replace or refund the TV, bearing in mind that I did not lose the TV (they did) is their stance reasonable?

If not, what should I do about it?

Just to be clear, they have had the money for more than 5 weeks and the TV for the last 2 weeks.

Cheers

 

[Crystalclear]

Simply book an appointment with you local CAB (citizen advice bureau) and take your receipt with you.

You need to get you money back at the least. Speedy refunds are normally given but in your case, it sounds fishy? :/

 

[DRM]

Many thanks, I hadn't thought about CAB, but I've just filled out their online form and hope this does the trick.

 

[Lucid]

Failing that then contact Trading Standards. That is the body most closely related to all things retail. That might actually be what CAB advise.

In related advice, delays and obfuscation like this is often because the person you are talking to isn't senior enough to make a decision to refund and they're afraid to go to their manager to ask. Take that decision out of their hands and always escalate to the highest person within the business. Eventually you will find a point where someone does have the authority to issue a refund before the problem lands on the MD'S desk and everyone down stream gets an arse-kicking

 

[Crystalclear]

As above minus the emphasis on arse kicking?!

Companies know what powers a customer has, just be 'Clint Eastwood' about it, and keep your guns in your holster, and your voice and eyes low?

 

[DRM]

I’ve looked at Trading Standards, but I think you have to go through CAB first.

I’m also trying to do a Chargeback on the Debit Card.

The replies to my emails are always from different people with no indication of what position they hold.

 

[joe-90]

Who is this company?

 

[SimonH2]

Write to them using recorded delivery (so you have proof of delivery even though legally it's not needed).

Head the letter "Notice before legal action"

State that the goods they supplied were not of satisfactory quality, having developed a fault within 3 weeks of supply - and note that the set was returned to their (insert place) branch.

As they are in breach of the implied terms that apply to all consumer contracts, you require them to repair or replace the set, or provide a full refund. If this is not done by (date giving them, say, 14 days) then you will instigate proceedings in the Small Claims track of the County Court (aka Small Claims Court) to recover the full price paid plus your costs.

This will most likely get their attention, with either a replacement set or full refund being offered together with an apology. Because even the densest customer services person knows that such action means trouble and they'll have management asking "difficult questions".

If it doesn't, then head over to the courts service and ill in the forms.
Hint - give the defendants address as the address of the branch where you collected the set and returned it to. If you give their head office, they can have the case transferred to a court near to them, but if you give the address of the local branch you used, they cannot do that. It puts you in a better position because if it did get to court, they know they have to do the travelling and you aren't likely to be put off having to go to the other end of the country.

See https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/ for more information. Don't forget to add the court fees and interest to the claim !

The process really is not that hard, just read carefully what you need to do (and when), and do it. If it does get to a hearing, which to be blunt is highly unlikely, then it's held in an office at the court and is fairly informal. Just state your case as you did in your first post, and show the evidence you have (copies of the receipt, copies of the emails etc - and which you'll have been asked to provide in advance).
If they don't back down at your letter, and it goes to court - most likely they won't even turn up. If so then you'll automatically get judgement - and on your way out you can file for the bailiffs to go and enforce it !

 

[sparkymarka]

Even better post this issue on social media as they have people checking this on a daily basis !

 

[RogerBoyle]

Write to them using recorded delivery (so you have proof of delivery even though legally it's not needed).

Head the letter "Notice before legal action"

State that the goods they supplied were not of satisfactory quality, having developed a fault within 3 weeks of supply - and note that the set was returned to their (insert place) branch.

As they are in breach of the implied terms that apply to all consumer contracts, you require them to repair or replace the set, or provide a full refund. If this is not done by (date giving them, say, 14 days) then you will instigate proceedings in the Small Claims track of the County Court (aka Small Claims Court) to recover the full price paid plus your costs.

This will most likely get their attention, with either a replacement set or full refund being offered together with an apology. Because even the densest customer services person knows that such action means trouble and they'll have management asking "difficult questions".

If it doesn't, then head over to the courts service and ill in the forms.
Hint - give the defendants address as the address of the branch where you collected the set and returned it to. If you give their head office, they can have the case transferred to a court near to them, but if you give the address of the local branch you used, they cannot do that. It puts you in a better position because if it did get to court, they know they have to do the travelling and you aren't likely to be put off having to go to the other end of the country.

See https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/ for more information. Don't forget to add the court fees and interest to the claim !

The process really is not that hard, just read carefully what you need to do (and when), and do it. If it does get to a hearing, which to be blunt is highly unlikely, then it's held in an office at the court and is fairly informal. Just state your case as you did in your first post, and show the evidence you have (copies of the receipt, copies of the emails etc - and which you'll have been asked to provide in advance).
If they don't back down at your letter, and it goes to court - most likely they won't even turn up. If so then you'll automatically get judgement - and on your way out you can file for the bailiffs to go and enforce it !

Are you sure about them being able to transfer the case ???????? I have always been told that the court where you as the injured party start the claim is where they must hear the case regardless of where the other party resides.

 

[DRM]

I called at a smaller high street store today to have a look at projectors and was very impressed, but I mentioned the problems that I was having getting my money back from the big boys.

They gave me a booklet entitled “Your consumer rights” which mentions the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

This states that it’s safest to work on the basis that you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive a major purchase to reject it.

I originally took it back to be exchanged for a brand new replacement, but on August 5th, I decided to inform them that I now requested a full refund instead.

This is the day after I found out that they had lost it.

If I can get the refund, I would far rather spend the money with the smaller high street store.

I’ve already contacted CAB and Visa Debit about the Chargeback, so I’ll give them a bit time to see what happens.

I was tempted to name them on here, but I don’t know if it would help the situation.

I’m not social media savvy, so I wouldn’t know where to start, but their website states that they are on Twitter and Facebook.

I did have a look on Twitter for something similar, but I couldn't find anything.

Thanks again for all the help and advice!

 

[SimonH2]

Are you sure about them being able to transfer the case ???????? I have always been told that the court where you as the injured party start the claim is where they must hear the case regardless of where the other party resides.

Yes, if you are the defendant you can have the case transferred to a county court near you - if you are the claimant then you have to be prepared for the defendant doing this.

It is worth checking "who is who" first though. For example, if you go into the shop of one of the mobile networks, you'll get a contract in one name but the shop may be a different business legally. They should have a reasonably prominent notice up with particulars of business - ie setting out exactly what the legal name of the business is, and their registered office. In the case of a mobile network I was considering taking to court, conveniently the notice in the shop had the same name as the name on my contract.

I called at a smaller high street store today to have a look at projectors and was very impressed, but I mentioned the problems that I was having getting my money back from the big boys.

They gave me a booklet entitled “Your consumer rights” which mentions the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

This states that it’s safest to work on the basis that you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive a major purchase to reject it.

Well there is no legal basis (other than the distance selling regulations) for rejecting something and getting a full refund. The vendor is allowed to repair, replace, or refund at their own discretion - which they choose will depend on various factors. Ie if it's a simple fault that's easily repairable then they'll choose a refund. If it's not worth repairing then they'll either replace or refund - if they can't get a reasonably equivalent replacement (either at all or without paying a lot more for it) then they'll refund.

The Sale of Goods and Service Act states that goods must be of satisfactory quality - that includes an implied term that they'll be free from defects. There is no specified time limit, but there is a general statute of limitations that cuts you off at 6 years, 6 years in Scotland IIRC.
How long something should last is a matter of appropriateness. If you buy a cheap pan for £1 from the market then your expectations will be somewhat lower (shorter) than if you spend £50 on a really "high quality" pan. In your case, £900 isn't exactly a budget model (unless it's very large).

In any case, your expectation is that it'll last more than 3 weeks.

For the first 6 months, there is a presumption that any faults were present when sold - and it's for the retailer to prove otherwise. After that, it turns around and it becomes the consumer's responsibility to show it was a latent defect rather than something that's developed later.

The fact that the retailer has lost your TV is not your problem - they'll have to take that up with the courier. Just send them the letter and stick to your guns. Since they can't now repair your original set, they'll have to replace it or refund you.

BTW - something being on sale doesn't actually change a thing, the same rights apply. That's a common one "sorry Sir, it was on sale, I can't help you" - but it's a lie.

Oh yes, that leaflet is "a bit out of date" ! The SOGAS act 79 was updated by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 and I was sure that itself was updated by something implementing an EU directive.

Also be aware of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 which basically give a list of things that cannot be in a consumer contract - or which if included are automatically unfair and unenforceable. Eg, a blanket "no refunds" policy would be unfair as it seeks to remove a legal right.

 

[Nakajo]

This is why I use a credit card for all purchases over £100

 

[DRM]

I used to have a credit card but I found it more hassle than it was worth at the time.

This was before Internet sales took off.

Might have to get another now, but I wonder how much more effective they are than this Visa debit card Chargeback scheme?

 

[SimonH2]

... I wonder how much more effective they are than this Visa debit card Chargeback scheme?

Definitely more.
Debit card schemes are voluntary - basically the card issuers have realised that they need to offer something to keep consumer confidence, but can pick and choose what to allow. The credit card schemes are legally imposed, if you use a credit card for even part of a purchase between £100* and £30k then the card issuer is jointly liable with the trader for any breach of contract by law.
So while for a debit card you will have to meet whatever process/proof the card issuer imposed, with the credit card you merely need to show a breach of contract leading to a loss and they must refund you - they'll probably want some evidence, but they cannot refuse a refund.

Many years ago I was in business and we had a card machine - remember the days of the old 3-part chits and a machine that rolled over the card to take an imprint from the raised numbers ? The contract we had to sign basically gave the card company cart blanche to take money from our bank account when they wanted. Sure they'd tell us, but as I read the contract it could be in a "BTW, we took this out yesterday" kind of way. I assume that would only be in extreme, and normally they'd phone us if a customer raised a query - but that never happened, I don't recall any customer ever asking their card issuer for a refund, and so we never found out what the normal process was.


* Not sure whether the minimum applies to the whole purchase, or to the amount paid by card.