Regs re: Bathroom Zones

[ninebob]

I would like to know exactly when the "Zones" came into force.

We just bought a 10kw shower to replace our existing 7kw one and got an electrician and plumber booked for the same time to do the job (the cable needed changing 6mm-10mm). The electrician took one look at the bathroom and point blank refused to do it.

I have been on this forum for over a year discussing electrics and I am simply staggered and amazed that I didn't notice this myself before - we've got an FCU in Zone 1

This is an apartment in a "luxury development", built in 1991, allegedly to a very high standard. I need to know if this was still illegal 14 years ago because we are now out of pocket and somebody at the rental company is going to get the blunt end of ninebob's temper........

 

[comms]

As its a rented property does it matter what the regs were 14 years ago, surely it should be to the current regulations as a rental property ?

 

[wedge69]

I don't know when the regs came into force, but our renatl agency always told us that "current" regs don't matter, onyl what was in force when the house was built.

 

[keenbutconfused]

What are people's opinions on which zone the actual fan itself is in.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Opinions don't count for much - it looks like it's in Zone 1, but it could be in Zone 2 - why don't you measure it?

If it's Zone 1 the fan is not allowed there.

If it's Zone 2 the fan is allowed there, as long as it is IPx4 rated.

But whether it's Zone 1 or Zone 2, that FCU is not allowed there.

BTW - if this is a luxury development built to a high standard I'd hate to see a bargain jerry-built one - even ignoring the Zone contraventions, the way that shower and fan have been wired is disgusting.

 

[ninebob]

I can't blame the developers for the shower wiring, we believe that was put in by the previous tenant. I was rather hoping today's sparky would make a better job when replacing the cable with 10mm, but as I said, he refused the job completely.

As for the fan itself, yes, it's unquestionably in Zone 1, and no, it's not IP rated.

I think I'm going to start my ar$e kicking trail now, and I'm going to begin with whoever issued this: (sorry, camera not very good at close-ups)

You're absolutely right about the so-called "high quality finish" in these flats, it's a joke. Other non-electrical gems include this:

I think we obviously pay a silly rent for the view of the river, not the quality of workmanship in the apartment itself!
Ho hum......

 

[mapj1]

The zones system was clarified Jan 1st 2002
before that it was
In no case within a bathroom is it permissible to rely for protection against direct contact on obstacles, placing out of reach, a non-conducting location or earth-free equipotential bonding. Switches must be out of reach of a person using the bath or shower, although cord-pull and similar remotely controlled switches may be used.
see herehttp://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/7.2.1.htm
for the before and after guidlelines.
Hope that helps.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So the installation shown is in flagrant breach of the pre-2002 regs as well.....

 

[Adam_151]

Surely the spark should be able to do the work as long as you allow him to extend that work from not only replaceing the shower, and putting the new 10mm cable in properly, but replaceing the fan with a selv ip rated one, and moving the fcu into either zone 3, or out of zones, and probably adding sup bonding as well?

 

[ninebob]

Surely the spark should be able to do the work as long as you allow him to extend that work from not only replaceing the shower, and putting the new 10mm cable in properly, but replaceing the fan with a selv ip rated one, and moving the fcu into either zone 3, or out of zones, and probably adding sup bonding as well?

Yes but the £££ for doing that sure as hell ain't coming out of our pockets - shower fair enough because we want the upgrade. I am going to wait until Longhurst send their own electrician round next month, having noticed from the sticker on the CU that our next PIR is due during July, and if it's the same company (FG Skerritt Electrical of Nottingham, incidentally - because I think it's entirely appropriate to name and shame in this case) I'll be asking serious questions as to how it passed the last one in 2001....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Don't be too quick to name-and-shame - if FG Skerrit did the last PIR, but were not responsible for the original installation, they could have filled it full of Code 1s but there would have been nothing they could do if the landlord had ignored them, or even necessarily have known....

 

[ninebob]

Don't be too quick to name-and-shame - if FG Skerrit did the last PIR, but were not responsible for the original installation, they could have filled it full of Code 1s but there would have been nothing they could do if the landlord had ignored them, or even necessarily have known....

Fair point, but we're not talking about a one-man-band landlord and single electrician here, the whole development:

is owned (not just managed) by Longhurst Ltd and Skerritts do all their electrical contracting.

I have just begun my ar$e kicking trail by phoning Skerritts and asking them to fax me a copy of the last issue in June 2001. I await it with interest and will let you know the outcome...

 

[Spark123]

Back in 1997 "Zones" did not exist in section 601 of the IEE regs BS7671 (yellow cover). Although it is now against reg 601 to fit the FCU, back then the only regulation it could contravene is 512-06 which states "Every item of equipment shall be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used or its mode of installation shall take into account of the conditions likely to be encountered." Taking into account the shower was not installed when the FCU was installed, the only real arguable point is humidity. The FCU should have been removed when the shower was installed as this poses a splashing risk.

 

[kevplumb]

jeeeeez if i had fitted that shower i wouldnt dare admit it

you sure he didnt have a stetson on simon

 

[ninebob]

Taking into account the shower was not installed when the FCU was installed

jeeeeez if i had fitted that shower i wouldnt dare admit it, you sure he didnt have a stetson on simon

Like I said, to the best of our knowledge there were no showers when the place was built and the previous tenant put this one in. To be perfectly honest, apart from the appaling aesthetics of the wiring I can see nothing wrong with the shower install, it appears to be correctly terminated in a 40A MCB at the CU and the bathroom bonding also appears up to scratch.

The naff looking wiring can be resolved when we eventually get the electrician to replace the shower. But the horrificly placed FCU means he won't work in there until it's fixed, and it's not for us to pay to fix it.

As said earlier, I phoned the electrical firm who did the last PIR to ask for a copy. This was about 3.30pm, I have just got back in and there's no fax. I wonder if there's some serious ass-kicking (or buck passing) going on in their offices?