Reliable MOMO Valves?

[machineage]

Hello all

Can anyone recommend a MOMO (Motor on - Motor off) 2 port zone valve that is reliable? I am aware of the current Sunvic ones - but am not impressed by their design and failure rates: http://www.seered.co.uk/sunvic.htm

Do the older ones not have the dodgy circuit as per the new ones?
Are there any others available which are built to take a double pole input without the use of such a circuit?

Thanks

 

[mickyg]

just rewire with spring return if possible. They're all carp, they're working at least twice as much as a spring return, so will fail at least twice as quick. stupid idea.

 

[DeltaT]

Hello all

Can anyone recommend a MOMO (Motor on - Motor off) 2 port zone valve that is reliable? I am aware of the current Sunvic ones - but am not impressed by their design and failure rates: http://www.seered.co.uk/sunvic.htm

Do the older ones not have the dodgy circuit as per the new ones?
Are there any others available which are built to take a double pole input without the use of such a circuit?

Thanks

Hmmmmmmm!!!! I'm not sure about that guys motives for slating Sunvic, former employee that got caught with his hand in the till perhaps????!!!

We have fitted 100s of MoMo valves without a problem, the biggest problem with actuators is where they are sited, they should be located in a cool well vented space.

Sunvic are no different from any other company, if they can get components from China, they'll buy them...............Shock horror!! Honeywell buy most of their stuff from China!!!

 

[Onetap]

Hmmmmmmm!!!! I'm not sure about that guys motives for slating Sunvic, former employee that got caught with his hand in the till perhaps????!!!

We have fitted 100s of MoMo valves without a problem, the biggest problem with actuators is where they are sited, they should be located in a cool well vented space.

Sunvic are no different from any other company, if they can get components from China, they'll buy them...............Shock horror!! Honeywell buy most of their stuff from China!!!

It reads more like he has knowledge of electronics and has got the hump with Sunvic for selling him carp. He advertises an actuator repair service on E-bay, I believe. There's nothing wrong with cheap Chinese components, but it's up to the UK vendor to ensure that they're fit for purpose, as required by UK consumer law.

PS The problem isn't with the Chinese components, according to the Seered guy, but with the circuit design.

just rewire with spring return if possible. They're all carp, they're working at least twice as much as a spring return, so will fail at least twice as quick. stupid idea.

On the contrary, it is the cheap spring-return domestic valves that are the stupid idea. Mo-Mo valves are used throughout the HVAC industry to provide proportional control from a timed output on a BMS system. Spring return valves are only used where there is a safety requirement for the valve to go to either open or shut in the event of a power failure.

The problem is time-served domestic plumbers who learned about S-plan and Y-plan in the 1960s and whose brains are incapable of absorbing anything more complex. Electronics have advanced somewhat since the Y-plan first came out.

 

[DeltaT]

Yeah what ever, Field Marshall Onetw.t

 

[Onetap]

Yeah what ever, Field Marshall Onetw.t

Quite.

If you had any idea, you might have posted an opinion on 0-10V control against 3-point (mo-mo to you) control, or on your preference for injection valves over 3-port mixing valves, or the advantages of injection mixing pumps.

You won't because you have no clue what all that's about. Try and get hold of a German manual for the boilers you install and see if the wiring diagrams are different and whether they use S-plans.

I'm a time-served Plumber & Heating Engineer

You're a plumber, Dick. Deal with it.

 

[DeltaT]

I've forgotten more about Central Heating than you know Field Marshall. I've extensive knowledge of both design & installation of Domestic & Commercial systems. I was installing it when you were still playing toy soldiers son.

Granted my knowledge on Electronics is limited, but on 240Vac control systems, again I have vast experience in both design & installation.

 

[Andygasman2010]

If you had any idea, you might have posted an opinion on 0-10V control against 3-point (mo-mo to you) control, or on your preference for injection valves over 3-port mixing valves, or the advantages of injection mixing pumps.

You won't because you have no clue what all that's about. Try and get hold of a German manual for the boilers you install and see if the wiring diagrams are different and whether they use S-plans.

I'd really like to learn more about this kind of thing and some of the things you mentioned in an earlier post. Problem is though i'd never use it!

It's pointless arguing the toss over who knows more than who, fact is we're all pretty good at what we do and i'm sure everyone would have something to teach the next guy

 

[simond]

It is true that MOMO valves are more commonly found in commercial situations but their mention in this regard appears to be some form of one-upmanship rather than a genuine desire to be helpful.

I haven't found Sunvic to be particularly well made but I am informed the company is under new ownership and great improvements are promised.

In the meantime, and for domestic applications, I'd recommend fitting a Honeywell spring return solution, be it 2 or 3 port.

 

[Onetap]

It is true that MOMO valves are more commonly found in commercial situations but their mention in this regard appears to be some form of one-upmanship rather than a genuine desire to be helpful.

If you had read my post, you would have noticed that it was posted in reply to Mickyg's post, i.e.,

just rewire with spring return if possible. They're all carp, they're working at least twice as much as a spring return, so will fail at least twice as quick. stupid idea.

He expressed an opinion, I expressed an different opinion.

The 240V spring-return valves have become established in the UK to the exclusion of virtually any other system. I think it is an inferior system. The idea of holding a motor powered and stalled against a return spring seems daft, if you have no need for a spring return.

I think you must have been looking for an opportunity to have a dig since I disagreed with you about Honeywell's Hometronic marketing. I had to revisit that thread to confirm that it was you.

Do grow up.

PS I don't know of any company besides Sunvic that markets mo-mo valves for domestic applications. I wouldn't suggest fitting commercial valves.

 

[mickyg]

just rewire with spring return if possible. They're all carp, they're working at least twice as much as a spring return, so will fail at least twice as quick. stupid idea.

On the contrary, it is the cheap spring-return domestic valves that are the stupid idea. Mo-Mo valves are used throughout the HVAC industry to provide proportional control from a timed output on a BMS system. Spring return valves are only used where there is a safety requirement for the valve to go to either open or shut in the event of a power failure.

The problem is time-served domestic plumbers who learned about S-plan and Y-plan in the 1960s and whose brains are incapable of absorbing anything more complex. Electronics have advanced somewhat since the Y-plan first came out.

What a pointless response. Does the op have a commercial system? no, does hi need BMS? no. Does he want a 2 port valve to open and close reliably? yes.
A 22/28mm honeywell spring return is far more reliable than a sunvic momo period. I've changed hundreds I should know.
I wasn't time served in the 60s 70s or 80s, I know plenty and learn plenty thanks, absolutely no need to be so patronising. You just seem hell bent on informing us all how smart you are rather than helping the OP.

 

[Onetap]

What a pointless response. Does the op have a commercial system? no, does hi need BMS? no. Does he want a 2 port valve to open and close reliably? yes.
A 22/28mm honeywell spring return is far more reliable than a sunvic momo period. I've changed hundreds I should know.
I wasn't time served in the 60s 70s or 80s, I know plenty and learn plenty thanks, absolutely no need to be so patronising. You just seem hell bent on informing us all how smart you are rather than helping the OP.

Which bit didn't you understand?

The spring return type valve actuators are less reliable than the 3-point actuators. That is why they are not used in commercial systems, unless there is a specific need for a spring return. They are not widely used in domestic installations because only Sunvic market compatible domestic controller.

The point of that post was not to provide helpful information to the OP but to disagree with your post because it is just wrong.

Got it?

 

[mickyg]

What a pointless response. Does the op have a commercial system? no, does hi need BMS? no. Does he want a 2 port valve to open and close reliably? yes.
A 22/28mm honeywell spring return is far more reliable than a sunvic momo period. I've changed hundreds I should know.
I wasn't time served in the 60s 70s or 80s, I know plenty and learn plenty thanks, absolutely no need to be so patronising. You just seem hell bent on informing us all how smart you are rather than helping the OP.

Which bit didn't you understand?

The spring return type valve actuators are less reliable than the 3-point actuators. That is why they are not used in commercial systems, unless there is a specific need for a spring return. They are not widely used in domestic installations because only Sunvic market compatible domestic controller.

The point of that post was not to provide helpful information to the OP but to disagree with your post because it is just wrong.

Got it?

and what bit didnt you understand? 2 port 22mm sunvic momos are not as reliable as a good quality sprin return. They fail every within 5yrs almost every time, dont know why dont care, but they do, period.
Im beginning to think you've no experience of domestic repairs, in which case another pointless post.
got it?

 

[Onetap]

Can anyone recommend a MOMO (Motor on - Motor off) 2 port zone valve that is reliable? I am aware of the current Sunvic ones - but am not impressed by their design and failure rates: http://www.seered.co.uk/sunvic.htm

Do the older ones not have the dodgy circuit as per the new ones?
Are there any others available which are built to take a double pole input without the use of such a circuit?

I forgot; ESBE valves. Sontay market them listed under rotary-shoe valves, but they take the manufacturer's name off the data sheets in their catalogue. ESBE seem to have been taken over by Danfoss and the prices jacked up accordingly. I don't know if the actuators are compatible with the Sunvic controllers. Rotary shoe valves can usually be used as mixing or diverting valves. Plug & seat type valves usually have to be used as diverting valves.

Some of the Sunvic valves were/are rotary shoe types although smaller than the ESBE ones. They used to do a controller which allowed their valves to be used as mixing valves.

Sunvic actuators used to be more reliable, their Minivals would last for decades.

 

[Onetap]

and what bit didnt you understand? 2 port 22mm sunvic momos are not as reliable as a good quality spring return. They fail every within 5yrs almost every time, dont know why dont care, but they do, period.
Im beginning to think you've no experience of domestic repairs, in which case another pointless post.
got it?

Lordy!
The proposition is that a motor on/motor off actuator ( in which the motor is powered to one position and then the power is disconnected) will generally prove to be more reliable than a similar spring return actuator ( in which the motor is driven to one position and then remains stalled, with the power on, against the return spring).

You can agree or you can disagree, I'm not bothered.

A Sunvic mo-mo actuator will be more reliable than a Sunvic spring return actuator. A Honeywell (or TA, Satchwell, Siebe, Belimo, etc, ) mo-mo actuator will be more reliable than the same manufacturer's spring return actuator.

Sunvic actuators are apparently (according to the Seered man) OK once amended. As supplied they are unreliable.

I've changed hundreds I should know.

It sounds like you've been binning them because you don't understand anything other than Y-plan and, maybe, S-plan.