Removable poles for shade sail

[Sprogginz]

Ideally I would like an awning that is 5 metres wide and extends out by 4 metres, obviously they're more expensive than a shade sail but I would still need special brackets to install the awning in front of downpipes which are incredibly expensive.

Nevertheless, I need two poles to support the shade sail away from the house and I want to be able to remove them so I've seen a few ideas and hope to go with one BUT it's sourcing the poles that's the problem.

The idea is to put a pole in the ground by about 80cm, surround it with cement and then fit the main pole inside that one. The main pole would need to be about 3 metres in length. Troubles is, I'd need to find two different diameter poles with about 2mm difference.

I would've have thought standard wardrobe poles would be okay but I'd need to find one that's about 28mm and the other 30mm.

I can't attach the rope or wire to anything else.

Does anyone know of any place that sells many different diameter pole or have a better idea? I wonder if I can use plastic pipe as the pole base if the sizes are compatible?

Thanks.

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,

Maybe, an 1 1/2" (ID) plastic pipe for the ground:
https://www.plasticpipeshop.co.uk/1-12-White-PVC-Pressure-Pipe-25m-Length_p_4291.html
And a galvanised steel 1 1/2" (OD) pole for the support:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-straight-pole-aerial-mast-3m/32094

But, blimey! - I wouldn't want to guarantee any sort of safety, or structural rigidity of such a support!

Edit: ignore the Screwfix link, have just seen max load is 5kg! But you get the idea.

 

[Tigercubrider]

How much do your drain pipes stick out?
A metal eye or ring fixed to the house can be connected to the sail either by a length of something like paracord or even a turnbuckle that provides a semblance of rigidity.

I’d look at clothes line poles or scaffold tube rather than wardrobe tubes.
Scaffold is 48mm
They make ground sockets for that size.
You could also add guy ropes to the pole to counter any pull of the sail.


https://www.proboat.co.uk/category/8/17/Rigging-Screws-Turnbuckles

 

[mattylad]

With no ability to add guide wires then I would suggest only a scaffold pole will be strong enough.
Can you cement in 2' of a 4' scaffold pole and use scaffold clamps to clamp a longer pole to it?
Then remove the longer ones when you no longer want it there.

Or cement in 2' of 2x 4' poles so they are wide enough apart that a third longer one will fit between them, with a big bolt going through them all near the top and a clamp at the bottom so you can lower it down?
Make something decorative to fit over the poles when not in use.

A rotary washing line fitting will IMO be too weak as the sail will have quite a pull on it in the wind.

Perhaps a scaffold pole jack/base plate, this will require damn long bolts into a very large bit of concrete.

 

[Sprogginz]

Thanks for all your advice.

I'll certainly look into the scaffolding option, seems the most appropriate. I've seen a couple of base plates which look I could cement in, although it looks like poles go over them rather than in them which would defeat the plan unfortunately.

That said, it's just occurred to me (a doh moment) that maybe I don't need to make holes but attach the poles to the fences, but I don't know if that's wise? Have a look at the photo and see what you think.



The fences on the right are about 5'10 and the ones on the left (older) are about 5'7. In case it's not clear, the left also use concrete posts. Do you think both sides would be sturdy enough?

I'm now wondering if I can just get away with by installing brackets on two posts where I just slide down the poles through them. If so, what fixings would I need to use?

Thanks again.

P.S. Attaching the sail to the house is not a problem even with the downpipes, it was if I wanted to attach a retractable awning instead that would cause a major issue involving special 'expensive' brackets.

Also, there are now borders running along the fences with slate chippings since that photo was taken.

 

[mattylad]

You have loads of garden there, plenty of room to put a stake in further out and a guy to a pole !!!

Do not try using the fence pole.

If you put a 2' stake in 10' (ish) back left and right then you can use a lighter weight pole (see aerial suppliers) that has a guy rope/wire to the stake and they should hold it OK.

Look at whats available from https://www.aerialsandtv.com/

 

[Sprogginz]

Thanks very much.

I've seen guy pole kits for shade sails such as this one that click together and apparently the poles don't need to be put in the ground but rely solely on the pull of the rope. They're about £15-20 each but seem to have mixed reviews.

I'm trying to picture what you mean about 2' stake in 10'. Is it the same concept as the one I mentioned above? I've looked at the poles in the aerial shop but can't see the guy rope/wire.

That said, it's just occurred to me: the shade sail will have a decline from the house, when it reaches and stops near the beginning of the lawn, it should be about 2 metres high by then. By the time the rope or wire reaches one of the fence posts, it should be at a height where I can simply attach something like a heavy duty screw or bolt eye to the posts . Do you think the posts will be strong enough to take it? This would certainly be the most simple, clean and cheapest option, the latter being important!

Thanks again.

 

[Tigercubrider]

First thing is "who owns what?"
if the concrete fence post is yours, you can fix to it. Ditto Garage(?) wall.
If not, you need permission.
The wooden fence looks too fragile

If a fence is 6' high, it uses an 8' post.
You could make a post hole for scaf by finding a plastic pipe that just slips over a 48mm tube (check if the pipe dimension is internal or external.)
dig a compact hole and insert the pole and pipe into the centre, use string or timber to get the pole vertical and concrete in. Might be worth a turn or two of paper around the pole to pack the pipe, preventing it going out of round and becoming tight.

 

[Sprogginz]

Thank for that.

That seems to be a solid yet cheapish option and something I should be able to do. Would like to find out first or know somehow if those concrete fence posts are capable to be used to attach an eyebolt of some sort. I don't know much about gauging structural integrity especially when using a shade sail.

I'm pretty sure the fence on the left is mine, the right (and garage) is definitely mine! The neighbours wouldn't mind me fixing an eyebolt onto one of them anyway although I wouldn't want to damage it! The actual wooden fence on the left has certainly seem better days but the concrete posts seem okay.

Thanks.

 

[mattylad]

How long is this sail?
How far into the garden will it go?
A guide rope/wire only needs to go back about 6 foot from the pole assuming you have a good stake into the ground at an angle.
If your ground is loose then a longer stake may be needed.
Yes you can use the fence way back at the end of the garden but adding the forces of a sail pulling in the wind may cause problems, depending upon how well the fence posts are secured in the ground. do not attach to the fence panels in any way.

Paracord will do for the guy rope, although it may require replacing over time as it gets wet and starts to rot.

 

[Sprogginz]

Thanks.

The sail will be 4 metres into the garden which is just about over the patio which you can see in the photo. The width of the garden is 6 metres and I'm planning on getting one that's 5 metres.