Removing door closers and home insurance

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Hi,

I have just moved into a new apartment. It was built around 2005 and has perko chain door closers on all the internal doors (even the hall cupboards).

I want to remove them because they drive us crazy and as far as I can tell serve no useful purpose (we use wedges to prop the door open during the day anyway). I would much prefer to have doors we can open/close manually, leave ajar etc. and have a hall cupboard I can access without the door slamming into my back.

I know at the time the property was built these returns were needed, but that this has since been changed (I presume because it was obviously such a terrible idea, kids losing fingers etc.).

If I remove them will it affect any house insurance? I was hoping not since they are no longer required by building regulations, but from reading some other posts it seems like the building regs are 'locked in' at the time the application is submitted so might still apply to this building?

If I make sure I tell the insurer is it likely to be OK?

We are in Scotland if it makes any difference.
 
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I suggest they are there for fire regs - 1 to keep fire rated doors closed, 2 to keep egress routes clear. Not only for the safety of people in your flat but also those in the rest of the block. I suggest the insurance company would have something to say about the degradation of these features.

Nozzle
 
I suggest they are there for fire regs - 1 to keep fire rated doors closed, 2 to keep egress routes clear. Not only for the safety of people in your flat but also those in the rest of the block. I suggest the insurance company would have something to say about the degradation of these features.

Thanks, I know this. But the regs have since changed and in an equivalent new build they would no longer be required. If they were still required I wouldn't be asking - my question is about whether such a change can affect my older building.

I would obviously not remove the closer on the front door to the common area, but for the internal doors at the end of the day we prop them with wedges anyway so they would overall spend more time closed (and be better for safety) if I removed the perkos.

PS
I know there are differing views as to whether one should put up for it for safety or whether they cause more danger - as far as I'm concerned that argument has been settled evidenced by the fact the requirement for them was removed from building regs in 2007.
 
Okay, you seem to have your finger on the issue - in your original post there was no mention of fire regs so that's why I thought it was worth mentioning.
 
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Thanks... Yes in 2007 it was changed (at least in Scotland) so that closers are only required on doors between a dwelling and a garage.

But I'm not sure if the regulations at the time of the application are locked in (ie whether insurance companies would accept it has changed later).

Also if we don't take home contents insurance anyway (there is a communal building policy) would there be any other potential consequences from removing the returns?
 
Are you the owner or renting?

Traditional dwelling houses have different regs to apartments (by which we assume a flat, in a block). Its very unlikely that closers were fitted if they were not required by Building Control at the time, developers are not keen on spending more than is necessary.

The rules that were in place at the time of construction are those that need to be adhered to in order to maintain adequate insurance. If you are the owner it will also be a term in your lease that you do not a alter things that could affect the spread of fire or safety. If you are renting it will be in your TA.

Though I do understand where you are coming from, one of the reasons the Regs were changed was because of the kids finger issue and that owners often remove them anyway. But be aware that if the worst was to happen you do leave yourself vulnerable, both in terms of safety and financially if an insurance claim was rejected, we all know how pedantic insurance companies can be. And many obviously assume 'it won't ever happen to them'.
 
Thanks.

We bought it, and it is a flat in a large (10+ storey) development.

The rules that were in place at the time of construction are those that need to be adhered to in order to maintain adequate insurance. If you are the owner it will also be a term in your lease that you do not a alter things that could affect the spread of fire or safety. If you are renting it will be in your TA.

Thanks - this answers my question. They were definitely required when the building was constructued, but stopped being required in 2007 - I was hoping I could use that to somehow justify their removal. They really are horrible things. Maybe in a big house is one thing but in a small apartment it is very annoying. I don't know how anyone with children or pets can stand it.

We are currently deciding whether to get home contents insurance ourselves anyway - I will try to find out if removing them would have any effect on the communal building policy. I don't remember seeing anything in our deeds. The thing is we will remove them so if it would invalidate the insurance we probably just won't get it.
 
It is awkward, I rented a three storey house for a while and they were throughout, drove us up the wall! Had wedges on all the doors though I always closed the kitchen door overnight, but then I'm a bit anal like that.

Many people likely remove them (I think I would have myself if we'd owned that house) but you should just be aware of what you're doing.
 
Easy answer really.

Get in contact with your local fire brigade fire prevention department and ask. They were obviously a requirement when the apartments were built and changes in any building regulations might have imposed other requirements on newer builds.

Their advise is free and you will get the correct answer rather than relying on the gut reaction of forum posters.

Having spent over 25 years in an English brigade I know they would be happy to advise you and, maybe, put lives at risk by doing the wrong thing.
 
Their advise is free and you will get the correct answer rather than relying on the gut reaction of forum posters.
Gut reaction? :rolleyes:

Some advise from the fire brigade (which I would be gob-smacked if they would ever actually provide in this situation) will not overrule an insurance policy.
 

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