Repainting bathroom...walls taken back to plaster...help!

[Zampa]

Zampa:

That's another difference in terminology between North America and Britain; masonary vs. exterior paint.

Over here, any paint meant to be applied to the outside of a house or building is an exterior paint. The term "MASONARY paint" means one that's specifically formulated to breathe well and meant to be applied over masonary to allow moisture to evaporate out through the paint film, but not allow rain water into the masonary through the paint film, and therefore keep the masonary as dry as possible.

There are quite a few differences in terminology for me to keep track of.

And me!

Pardie...

All of those ranges of paints are fine...all good quality...allthough you may be paying through the nose for craig and rose (hey...sounds like a advertising slogan!!)...

You may also want to consider Farrow and Ball

The Dulux heritage range is very good...

But it doesnt matter about any of these ranges if yoy dont like the colour!..you may find what your looking for on an ordinary trade colour palette....

Or...find the colour you like in one of the period ranges then have it mixed in ordinary paint..it will be cheaper.

There is another factor here...the appearance of the paint...a lot of the period ranges of paint have a matter finish than ordinary vinyl matt emulsions the flatter the finish the more depth of colour you have (apparently) its not always noticeable though...and maybe not worth the extra cost...it also have a dryer more powdery feel to it...not that you should go around rubbing your hands over the wall.

 

[pardie14]

Thanks I agree, the Heritage range is pretty good, I've used two lots of this, one lot in the kitchen seems very unfazed by condensation - its very matt too, which is great on uneven walls. Have tested some Crown emulsions and doesn't seem to apply as well either.

But...only colour I like is in the Craig & Rose 1829 range, you're right it has almost a chalky finish. I'll only need one tin (small bathroom, half tiled) so can probably justify the £££.

Wondering about the primer for the plaster - will this just be a watery emulsion? Or does it have extra stuff in it? (technical term)!

Doing the bedroom next in a Laura Ashley paint, hope to god this is OK paint as I bought two tins. Hmm.

Re the glosswork, I'm resigned to sanding off the blue gloss, priming with a basic wood primer in white, then two coats white gloss. Of all the jobs I'm doing, sanding off blue gloss must be the worst. Foul stuff that goes everywhere like radioactive dust!

I use a face mask - haunted by thoughts i might be hospitalised in 10 years with "blue lung" or similar...

 

[Zampa]

Nope...you dont have to 'put any stuff' in the paint...just thin it by about 25%...all that stuff about PVA etc is a wifes tale beleive me...ive never seen a decorator do that.

Hope your not dissapointed with the Laura Ashly paint...a few of my custmoers have had it and said it wasnt worth the extra...but if its just the colour your after then you have to stick with it really.

Theres no need to sand all the paint from the woodwork if its not in bad condition...just give it a couple of coats of undercoat and save your elbows and wrists!

I wouldnt worry about getting radioactive lungs...use a good mask..it could be worse, it could be gold paint on the woodwork...you may have ended up with a gilt complex..

 

[gcol]

"Guilt complex" - That was terrible Zampa...truly.

 

[pardie14]

I never object to a good pun!

Having sanded the blue gloss woodwork in one room by hand, I would now do almost anything (and that's a considered statement) to avoid sanding again...even with a sander... but was under the impression that gloss on top of gloss will just peel away (no "key" for the paint).

Also, made the mistake last time of doing glosswork after emulsion. This time would do emulsion on walls first, since "cutting in" on the woodwork is simpler that way. Nothing like looking at a wavy skirting board to sharpen you up.

Previous owner liked dark blue gloss, silver windowsills and squares of acrylic sprayed onto the walls. God.

As for the Laura Ashley, test patches show it's very matt (good) but the colour is very intense. "Pale delphinium" more like "knock your eye out blue". Hey ho.

So, will gloss on top of gloss just peel off? Or will it take so long I'll have moved by then? Don't really want to do everything the hard way!

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

My understanding is that the glossier a surface, the more difficulty any paint will have sticking to it, and that's true of getting any paint to stick to any high gloss oil or latex paint.

So, if you want to paint gloss over gloss, but don't want to sand, then I'd see if some of the chemical deglossers we have over here are available over there as well, one of which is called "Liquid Sandpaper".

But, if you intend to paint with a gloss emulsion, you can always use a sticky primer like Zinsser's Bullseye 123 to stick to the unsanded smooth surface, and then paint over the Bullseye 123 primer with whatever you want.

I wouldn't recommend that if you want to top coat with a gloss oil because emulsion paints dry to considerably softer films than oil based paints, and the result will be a hard film over a soft one, with the result that the top coat of paint will be very prone to being chipped off easily.

I use a high gloss polyurethane based paint on the kitchen cupboards in my apartments, and when I have to sand it down to repaint, I'll take the time to go out and buy special sandpaper. Over here, the 3M company makes sandpaper from a particularily hard grit that remains sharp much longer than softer grits would, and the result is that the sanding goes much faster and easier and that sandpaper really does last muc longer. It costs a few dollars, but it makes life much easier.

 

[Zampa]

No I wouldnt go for the gloss on gloss...thats a big mistake..I would just give them a tickle with the abrasive aper then a couple of undecoats then a gloss...or...better still two straight coats of eggshell finish or satin...(oil based)

As for cutting in...painting the wood work last is the right way to do it...so you wasnt wrong...I understand what you mean about finding it tricky though...it is easier to cut in vertial things like architraves etc after the gloss ...but you will find skirtings easier doing them after...it saves having to get on your hands and knees and work virtually upside down..it will also save embarresing carpet burns on your knees!..

 

[Nestor_Kelebay]

Zampa:

I noticed you said "I would just give them a tickle with the abrasive paper then a couple of undecoats then a gloss..." and I thought I should explain to people in here that that's a good gameplan because the poster is wanting to change the color as well.

I've noticed that often on painting forums where people will recommend sanding down a glossy surface and then priming that sanded surface before painting, but unless they explain why, newbie DIY'ers may misunderstand the need to prime. The whole idea of sanding the smooth surface is to improve adhesion, and a top coat of paint will stick to that sanded surface just as well as a coat of primer will. So, if one is painting over a glossy paint with the same color or varnishing over dulled varnish or polyurethane to restore it's gloss, then is there really isn't any need to prime first. Similarily, not all paint pigments hide equally well, and if you're using an oil based paint tinted with a high hiding inorganic pigment (which I haven't talked about much yet), then it's very possible that you'll be able to hide an underlying color sufficiently well with a single coat of that paint. So, in that case, there's no need to prime after sanding.

But, in this case the poster wants to change the color of his gloss paint, and high gloss paints generally have poorer hide than lower gloss paints. So, by priming first, you use the high hide of the white pigment (titanium dioxide) in the low gloss primer mostly just to hide the underlying color. THEN you use the top coats to change the color white (or tinted white) to the final color. And, by doing that, it takes less work because you have to apply fewer coats in total because each coat of a good quality primer will generally hide better than each coat of a high gloss paint.

Just thought I'd explain to people why sometimes you do want to prime after sanding down a glossy paint and other times it isn't necessary.

 

[gcol]

As for cutting in...painting the wood work last is the right way to do it...so you wasnt wrong...I understand what you mean about finding it tricky though...it is easier to cut in vertial things like architraves etc after the gloss ...but you will find skirtings easier doing them after...it saves having to get on your hands and knees and work virtually upside down..it will also save embarresing carpet burns on your knees!..

You're saying to emulsion first then gloss the woodwork after Zampa? I've always done it the other way around on the understanding that it's easier to wipe off emulsion of gloss than it is to wipe off gloss of emulsion.
Gcol

 

[pardie14]

Have had two approaches to cutting in. First one, I repainted the hallway walls with emulsion, didn't bother with renewing the gloss, and found that I could "Wipe" a clean edge quite well between emulsion and the old gloss skirting board.

Then in another room, painted walls Victorian red, then did white gloss on skirting & doorway, found myself as you say, painting upside down and ending up with distinctly noticeable wavy line. Wish had 20 years experience, but in lieu of that, may settle for "Wiping" a line at the skirting board.

Can't think of a way to fix wavy skirting board line so will remain an interesting feature.

Thought I'd give all the pros out there a good laugh.

As for converting navy blue gloss to white gloss, plan is now a light sanding, sugar soap, 2 undercoats, 2 coats gloss.

Carpet burns are irritating if not acquired in the preferred manner. However at least it gives the impression I have a life! Rather than spending it in the DIY warehouse...

 

[confidentincompetent]

I always gloss last, after ceilings, walls are finished take up dust sheets, vac round and gloss. Mind you I have favourite well broke in cutting in brush specially for glossing trims. (nobody borrows them )

 

[Zampa]

I always gloss last, after ceilings, walls are finished take up dust sheets, vac round and gloss. Mind you I have favourite well broke in cutting in brush specially for glossing trims. (nobody borrows them )

Shall we let everyone in on what the old nickname of these brushes are called?

Pardie,,,,after a little practice and patience cutting in the skirtings after will give you a far better line I promise...much better than using a 'cutting in rag' as us 'pros' call them. Just in case your confused about Nesters use of the word 'primer'....its what call undercoat.

B an Q do a good rnge of knee protectors...for all occasions btw...

 

[pardie14]

Am sure it's like everything and improves with practice!

Go on I really want to know the old nickname. Won't be offended & might cheer me up.

In self defence I can say the landlord has caulked the skirting board really unevenly so had no straight "corner" to paint to. Went cross eyed trying to paint a straight line onto a bumpy surface!

(Didn't know any means of smoothing the caulking)

Go on tell me the nickname, I've given everyone else a good laugh

 

[Zampa]

Oh the mods will love me for this (not)

Dogscock!...so called because of the shape a well worn inch brush forms into after a lot of use...most painters have theor favourites and as CC said...you dont lend em out...they are the best cutting in brushes.

If the caulk is uneven then you could always caulk over the top of it...down put too much on though it takes ages to properly cure and can cause the paint to crack if you over coat it too soon.

 

[pardie14]

You live n learn!

Gave me a chuckle, cutting in will never be quite the same again, but I could hardly have done worse if I had been cutting in with one of those (still attached).

Would probably be reported to the RSPCA though.

Spare a thought for me this weekend as I repaint an artexed ceiling, in between removing the glo-stars left by the previous occupant! (Seems a shame. He actually arranged them in constellations)