Replacing cast iron bend with limited space

[phatboy]

Hi all,

I need to replace what believe is a 1 1/4" waste elbow, serving a basin. Installation circa 1960.

I think it was cast iron. ID 33mm, OD 38mm (Of the pipe inside the remains of the fitting )

As you can see, the part coming out of the wall doesn't have much space.

Attached is a photo of a very similar setup a couple of metres away.

Any help appreciated as to what to use, I have found some rubber fittings with jubilee clips, but hope there is something a bit neater.

 

[CountryFan]

Can you replace to outside in pvc? If not, any room to cut and get a universal coupling on and take to outside in pvc? Probably what has been done in the 2nd photo.

 

[phatboy]

Can you replace to outside in pvc? If not, any room to cut and get a universal coupling on and take to outside in pvc? Probably what has been done in the 2nd photo.

Cannot really replace to outside as it’s under the floor. I could get a universal on if I cut the render out.

The second photo is I believe original. I suspect it will fail next as well!

 

[ree]

OP,
Both set-ups look well shaky - as above, bite the bullet and replace the pipework in plastic.
Why not post interior pics of the floor below the basin, & the other situation?
Waste pipes are best run to discharge in trapped gullies.

 

[phatboy]

OP,
Both set-ups look well shaky - as above, bite the bullet and replace the pipework in plastic.
Why not post interior pics of the floor below the basin, & the other situation?
Waste pipes are best run to discharge in trapped gullies.

This is in a youth hall I volunteer at. Budget is close to non-existant. I suppose I could core a 45mm hole and run new waste out at the wall level...

What looks shaky? The iron pipes feel solid, but the exposed bends clearly are not.

Also why are they best into trapped gulleys? They are trapped behind the basin which stops all smells?

Thanks

 

[CountryFan]

The iron pipes feel solid, but the exposed bends clearly are not.

Having zoomed in further, are you sure they’re cast iron and not Asbestos cement or older plastic?

 

[phatboy]

Having zoomed in further, are you sure they’re cast iron and not Asbestos cement or older plastic?

You make a good observation! I went there yesterday and extracted the broken elbow gently, and it along with the pipe are plastic. The pipe is very thin walled compared to what I'm used to, but it seems like a solvent weld 36mm elbow will just about go over it, with some careful persuasion.

Good spot, thanks for that!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Existing pipework is 'Push Fit', made from Polypropylene, which unfortunately doesn't like the UV in sunlight and degrades, as you've found out....

Solvent Weld is not compatible with Push Fit, Solvent Weld uses ABS, a different type of plastic, Polypropylene cannot be solvent welded, afraid you wont be able to glue a Solvent Elbow onto the existing pipe, it wont work and is likely to leak inside the wall, possibly causing further issues.

The only real solution I'm afraid is to renew the damaged sections. What access do you have internally? The section through the wall will need to be renewed, whether you join that to the existing pipework internally, (you will need to use a Compression waste Fitting to join the two types), or replace the lot back to the Basin is your call.

Should be possible to remove the stub of pipework going through the Mortar Cap on top of the drain, (either cut it lengthways with a hacksaw blade or just use brute force and lever it out!), and then insert the new pipework through the same aperture, if need be seal the gap with a suitable exterior grade Silicone.

Direct connection to the drain is perfectly acceptable, provided the Trap has a 75mm depth of seal.

 

[phatboy]

Existing pipework is 'Push Fit', made from Polypropylene, which unfortunately doesn't like the UV in sunlight and degrades, as you've found out....

Solvent Weld is not compatible with Push Fit, Solvent Weld uses ABS, a different type of plastic, Polypropylene cannot be solvent welded, afraid you wont be able to glue a Solvent Elbow onto the existing pipe, it wont work and is likely to leak inside the wall, possibly causing further issues.

The only real solution I'm afraid is to renew the damaged sections. What access do you have internally? The section through the wall will need to be renewed, whether you join that to the existing pipework internally, (you will need to use a Compression waste Fitting to join the two types), or replace the lot back to the Basin is your call.

Should be possible to remove the stub of pipework going through the Mortar Cap on top of the drain, (either cut it lengthways with a hacksaw blade or just use brute force and lever it out!), and then insert the new pipework through the same aperture, if need be seal the gap with a suitable exterior grade Silicone.

Direct connection to the drain is perfectly acceptable, provided the Trap has a 75mm depth of seal.

Thank you, that settles what it is, and what needs doing, then!

Internal access is behind the basin, but then the pipe goes into the floor until it appears outside.

I will see if I can break enough wall out to get a push fit elbow on the outside securely, as it will save a load of hassle. Otherwise, it will be a wall mounted pipe from the basin through a new hole in the wall.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Fingers crossed, but to add to your woes, Push Fit Waste sizing varied slightly between the various Manufacturers, so unless you can ID the existing to get a decent match, ensure you have a snug watertight fit in the wall if going down that route. Alternatively a Compression Waste elbow will do the job if you can get sufficient room to fit it and tighten it up!

It is worth protecting exposed plastic waste pipes by painting them with a decent gloss paint.

 

[phatboy]

Fingers crossed, but to add to your woes, Push Fit Waste sizing varied slightly between the various Manufacturers, so unless you can ID the existing to get a decent match, ensure you have a snug watertight fit in the wall if going down that route. Alternatively a Compression Waste elbow will do the job if you can get sufficient room to fit it and tighten it up!

It is worth protecting exposed plastic waste pipes by painting them with a decent gloss paint.

Thank you, I did mean a compression fitting, as a push fit wouldn't need much render removal at all! For a compression I can see me cutting back a large area, then needed to re-render it. All fun and games!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I know your pain. Got roped into looking at a Water Leak at the local Football Club a few years back, of course they were pleading poverty and it's was all about the Kids being able to play. That turned into laying a new service across the Car Park as the leak was under the stand somewhere.....