Replacing fluorescent tubes

[fixitflav]

but tubes with LED far more expensive

Cost me £11. I didn't know what expect, but that didn't seem outrageous.

Thanks for all comments on this, I've learnt something.

 

[333rocky333]

I know this is an old thread, but I’ve just replaced a fluorescent tube and a couple of things puzzle me.

No problem getting the right length, 1.2m, and it works OK. Jacobsen, made in China naturally, from B&Q.

The 2 leaflets that came with it refer to fluorescent and LED types. Says “battens” which I assume means the ceiling unit it goes into, but I’ve not heard it called that before.

Says
1A (pic shows tube and starter)
Installation in fluo battens only.
Only compatible with ferromagnetic battens used with LED starter and LED replaceable patterns. Not compatible with battens operating with electronic ballasts.

And
1B (pic shows tube only)
Installation in LED battens only. No starter required.
IMPORTANT: LED tubes must be installed with the arrow close to mains supply connection. (AC input)
If installation way is not correct, tube would be damaged.

Does this mean the tube can function as fluorescent or LED, determined by the “batten” it goes in to?

Just to see what would happen, I tried it with no starter and it didn’t light. I tried it with the old starter and it didn’t work properly, can’t remember whether it flickered.
With the supplied starter it works fine, lights instantly without the traditional initial flickering.

Interested in any comments.

1A refers to your fitting type , your fitting has live at one end pin , albeit via the existing choke [ballast ] and Neutral opposite end pin , the old starter bridged the other pins end to end.

The modern led needs L and N at the same end, that dummy starter they supply is just a bridge from one end to the other to do that.
The design of that particular led in this case allows to be fitted either way round.
Either way round there will always be L and E at one end or the other.

1B refers to a led fitting that is already made with L and N at one end only and was sold as led only, never fluorescent, in this case simply bin the old LED tube and fit the new one, hence it needs fitting the right way round, wrong way round and you possibly short L and N together.
These units generally have a sticker at one end and a warning Led only.

As you later ask you can simply bypass the choke by simply cutting and jointing its 2 wires, however in your case unless you also divert the N wire from one end to the other, then your led lamp would still need the dummy starter to work.
Some manufacturers frown on all these conversions as it not only invalidates any CE certification, it can cause other issues with people trying to relamp in future, especially when someone unaware tries to refit a fluorescent glass tube
Personally purpose designed units are preferable
A batten fitting is just a term for a standard surface mounted led or fleurescent fitting

 

[fixitflav]

1A refers to your fitting type , your fitting has live at one end pin , albeit via the existing choke [ballast ] and Neutral opposite end pin , the old starter bridged the other pins end to end.

The modern led needs L and N at the same end, that dummy starter they supply is just a bridge from one end to the other to do that.
The design of that particular led in this case allows to be fitted either way round.
Either way round there will always be L and E at one end or the other.

1B refers to a led fitting that is already made with L and N at one end only and was sold as led only, never fluorescent, in this case simply bin the old LED tube and fit the new one, hence it needs fitting the right way round, wrong way round and you possibly short L and N together.
These units generally have a sticker at one end and a warning Led only.

As you later ask you can simply bypass the choke by simply cutting and jointing its 2 wires, however in your case unless you also divert the N wire from one end to the other, then your led lamp would still need the dummy starter to work.
Some manufacturers frown on all these conversions as it not only invalidates any CE certification, it can cause other issues with people trying to relamp in future, especially when someone unaware tries to refit a fluorescent glass tube
Personally purpose designed units are preferable
A batten fitting is just a term for a standard surface mounted led or fleurescent fitting

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation.

 

[VictoriaS]

Sorry to jump in with some very basic questions.

We had 2 fluorescent tubes in our kitchen (120cm, 36W, 3350 lumen) and one in our utility room (150cm, which I'm guessing was 58W, but definitely more lumens than one of the smaller tubes).
We recently got them removed and new round LED lights put up. They are only about 2150 lumens each and really don't give us the amount of light we like - it is dark in areas and dark when working at the sink and counter. We like lots of light. The old fittings are in the garage but I'm assuming those are defunct now anyway and should be brought to the recycle centre?

So, I need to find 'tube' lights & fittings, to replace what we had. I don't like the round lights; round isn't the right shape.

Do LEDs deteriorate over time; get less bright?
Do you get LED tubes so can easily replace them as necessary, or is it the whole fitting that needs changed.
Do LEDs give a good radius/direction of light - will it reach the corners! and not seem detrimentally darker if standing with my back to the lights (ie working at the sink/counter)!

Are there any good smart LED 'tubes' - connect to alexa/google to shout at!

Just looking for some (sane) information before I go totally crazy and try to convince myself its a late birthday/early christmas present and get Philips Hue rectangular panels, which I suspect are lovely but really not cost efficient, nevermind not sure about their light capabilities..

Hindsight is a wonderful thing I guess!

 

[endecotp]

So, I need to find 'tube' lights & fittings, to replace what we had. I don't like the round lights; round isn't the right shape.

Do LEDs deteriorate over time; get less bright?

All lights do to some extent. Old incandescent lamps were the worst because the tungsten from the filament would evaporate and condense on the inside of the glass - do you remember how old bulbs looked grey by the time they failed? I don’t know how modern LEDs compare to fluorescent tubes in this respect.

Do you get LED tubes so can easily replace them as necessary, or is it the whole fitting that needs changed.

Most “long thin” LED fittings that I’ve seen are integrated, i.e. you need to replace all of it. If you want replaceable bulbs, they will probably not have that shape - though you might be able to find something that you like.

Do LEDs give a good radius/direction of light

Yes?

 

[333rocky333]

Most led tubes are designed ( some better than others ) to convert older fleurescent fittings, if you do buy led tubes you may struggle to get a fitting nowadays to fit them into.
Obviously your old 4ft and 5ft fittings may be an option to reuse for this.

The future direct replacement now is a batten fitting with built in non replaceable led strip, these are usually sold as single or double to replace 1 or 2 tube fittings
Although they look the same the double usually has two led strips hence twice as bright

 

[VictoriaS]

Oops. Got my cm and mm mixed up! Doh!

OK, so LED battens are what I should be looking at then.
Since the old fittings are now down (they are 50 years old - I don't remember them ever being changed and pretty sure the utility room one is original as the roof isn't painted underneath it!), it is probably the time to go with current/future fittings rather than put the old ones up again and try to find something to fit them.

Thank you for your replies. I really appreciate it as I have no one around me to use as a sounding board now.

 

[333rocky333]

Oops. Got my cm and mm mixed up! Doh!

OK, so LED battens are what I should be looking at then.
Since the old fittings are now down (they are 50 years old - I don't remember them ever being changed and pretty sure the utility room one is original as the roof isn't painted underneath it!), it is probably the time to go with current/future fittings rather than put the old ones up again and try to find something to fit them.

Thank you for your replies. I really appreciate it as I have no one around me to use as a sounding board now.

mm are more common for tubes, but most knew what you meant 4ft or 1200mm 36w, and 5ft or 1500mm 58watt. T8 is the diameter ( Tubular 8/8= 1 inch)

Yes, google "Led battens", personally id avoid them slim ones although they look nice the control gear inside seems unreliable compared with the fatter ones that have bigger ballasts.
Many now also have CCT built in, this means you can switch between minimum of 3 colour temps to suit your needs 2700k 4000k or 6000k

If you did want to opt for separate removal led type tubes, then google "T8 Led battens", though this range is limited and harder to source.
sometimes the tubes are sold separate to the fitting.

 

[MickTheBrick82]

Cheers for all the info folks! So basically, if you've got an old-school fitting with a magnetic ballast and starter, you can swap in an LED tube with a dummy starter (which is just a fuse/link). But honestly, sounds like the easiest option is just binning the old fitting and getting a new LED one - less faff, better efficiency, and no worries about compatibility. Plus they're proper bright innit? Might cost a bit more upfront but saves hassle in the long run. Ta!