Retrospective Building Control Approval

[duxster]

Hi all

Can anyone give me some basic advice?

We had a conservatory fitted at the beginning of this year and in our area it is exempt from planning and building control.

To fit the conservatory they removed a UPV bay on the back of the property and the plans were to replace this with UPVC french windows leading into the newly built conservatory. All good so far.

The bay was removed and the conservatory built and then we started to shop around for the new doors. Well after 9 months we have still not found the right sort of replacements and we now love the openness of the conservatory directly from the house.

I know that without doors fitted between the house and the conservatory it needs building control approval. If we wanted to leave the doors off and still play by the rules and contact building control does anyone know what they may ask us to do?

I know they will want a heating survey done of the property and this may require changes to the insulation currently in the property but I am more concerned with the construction side. Will the want to see the foundation of the conservatory etc? No structural changes were made to the property as the lintels etc were already in and have never been touched.

Any advice would be appreciated before I give the BCO a call.

Cheers

Robert

 

[k2kris]

It is a bit tricky to say without actually seeing your particular case, however I have recently carried something similar out so will use this as an example.

The key part to this will be that if the conservatory becomes part of the main house it will require to meet thermal regulations as per Part L of the Building Regulations. i.e. U-Values. There are a few different ways of calculating this however I would imagine that the only applicable will be the floor area method. This method assesses the glazing to floor area ratio. Building Regs state that glazing to a property should not equate to greater than 25% of the total floor area.

Other factors the BCO will look at is the ventilation including background ventialtion through trickle vents or other means, insulation levels to the floor (most Authorities will allow you to trade this off elsewhere if items are complete as long as you are coperative), the lintel (although you have said you are not extending the width of the opening), critical glazing (i.e. saftey glazing in lower locations) & also fire spread.

Dont be too daunted they will help & guide you to the information they will require but helps to have a little bit of background first. Check out the Building Regulations at www.odpm.gov.uk

 

[Mr Winston]

the conservatory will be classed as an extension and needs to achieve the same standards as a normal extension

this will need the exposure of the
foundations,
floor slab/joists,
insulation to the wall,
justification for the heat loss

if any problems are found then these will ned to be put right before any approval will be issued

when conservatories are exempt obviously they tend not to be inspected by an indepentdant surveyor so it would not be surprising if what has been constructed does not meet the minimum standards required buy building control and improvement work may be needed

This may involve underpinning/replacement slab etc

Having said that you may have struck lucky and used a firm who do a proper job regardless of regs (although some will look to cut corners and save £ on the unseen areas)

You should talk to your BCO to find out what is to be exposed - although they may not be able to gve a full list without seeing the building.

you might be better off finding some nice external quality french doors

 

[Bahco]

You don't really have to worry until you sell the house and the searches are made.

 

[duxster]

Hi

Thanks for all the info.

The conservatory was built to very high standards from the start as we made sure of that. The foundations were 1m deep (actually deeper than the house it's self) the slab is fully insulated with 4" sheet, dwarf walls are all cavity filled, conservatory roof is 38mm triple glazed k glass, sides are double glazed 38mm K glass. (yes it was expensive)

I appreciate that the only time an issue will arise is if we sell the house but just thought if we was not too difficult to it signed off I may have looked into it further.

If we did sell the house and the buyers like the way it is but when they have a survey they find that it did not BC approval can they simply say they don't care and buy it anyway? Do surveyors report non covered work to the BCO? Would an indemnity policy cover this type of situation?

Cheers

Robert

 

[oilman]

If we did sell the house and the buyers like the way it is but when they have a survey they find that it did not BC approval can they simply say they don't care and buy it anyway?

This might be a problem, since I understand solicitors have been told by the law society not to carry out the conveyance work unless all the papers are correct. Something to do with professional indemnity.

 

[salem2000]

Talk to your local Building Control Officer, he will advise you what will be required. If it looks like it may be too much work or too costly, fit doors.

If you use timber doors, you could always fit the frame and store the doors untill its time to sell the property.

Salem.

 

[duxster]

Hi

Thanks for the ideas.

With regard to solicitors not signing off how do you buy a house that needs work then! Say you buy a house which the survey says needs rewiring and a new roof as it does not meet regs. In a lot of cases the previous owner would discount the house to compensate instead of having the work done? Or am i missing something?

We have considered woodern doors in oak but does anyone know if it would be possible to have 3 doors (all narrower than a normal door) which all hinge from one side. In effect the doors would fold back on themselves to one side leaving the open feeling? I presume the use of parliament hinges would get around them fouling each other and top and use bottom bolts to fix them inplace when closed?

What do you think about the weight as all three would in effect be supported from one side? Could a track be utilised? The reason I would like all the doors to go to one side is due to there being a wall at one side which the doors can be against when open, at the other side it is glass. The span is approx 2.3m.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

Robert

 

[Mr Winston]

With regard to solicitors not signing off how do you buy a house that needs work then! Say you buy a house which the survey says needs rewiring and a new roof as it does not meet regs. In a lot of cases the previous owner would discount the house to compensate instead of having the work done? Or am i missing something?

Hi Robert

the difference between needing a rewire/underpining/reroof etc is that these are maintenance issues which are expected to arise over the life of the building.

You have a built a conservatory that is contravening the Building Regs unless you install the external quality doors (its not like the doors have deteriorated over 20 years).

(the solicitor doesnt sign off the works - he merely checks that he council have signed it off/approved it)

 

[Johnboy54]

My bit -
I built a porch, using brick, slate tiles... the lot, all to regs along with an extension.
I took the uPVC original door off and put it on the porch.
Got a nice, glass-panelled door from Wickes to use as the new internal door.
The porch didn't need planning permission.
However, the inspector said that once I removed the uPVC door and moved it, it then needed planning permission.
I had to replace the glass door with a uPVC one.
So, now I've got 2 uPVC doors.
It's very warm.
I think the same principle applies with your alterations.

 

[duxster]

John

I am aware that I need to fit external grade doors to where the old ones were and that is not a problem.

My main concern is I want to keep the open aspect as it is now so the door must open completely.

I have had 3 UPVC window and door people in to have a look and all said they would just fit french doors with fixed glass panels to each side. This is no good as it will not feel open and I want the doors to open back against the sides and not be left open at an angle into the room.

I did see a programme last night on Discovery H&L where someone had done up a house boat. The UPVC glass doors at the end opened then then slid back on a track in a zigzag fashion to sit flat at the ends. This would be ideal but how do find out who does them.

The quest goes on!!!

Robert

 

[Johnboy54]

Sorry, I may not have made it clear. I was answering your original question -

If we wanted to leave the doors off and still play by the rules and contact building control does anyone know what they may ask us to do?

Yes, you'll need planning permission.
No, they won't allow you to leave it open. You'll have to fill it with whatever doors you like, as long as they come up to external standards.
Which is just what I've had to do with my porch.
Even though the porch wasn't included in the plans for the extension (because it didn't need to be) and didn't come under building control, the inspector said it would then come within his remit if I moved the original external door onto the porch. That's why I had to fit a second external door to the inside, otherwise he wouldn't have approved the extension.
You could leave it open, but a future sale/searches would mean you'd need to fit the doors then.
That's what applies in my area, at least.

MOD

edited to correct quote

 

[duxster]

Hi all

Thanks for all the information and advice, I did a search on the web and by chance found the following. Not only do they do the doors I have been searching for for 18months but they are located 5 miles down the road!!!

http://www.foldingslidingdoors.com

These are what I have been after...

Has anyone seen these fitted anywhere? Or fitted them?

Cheers

Robert

 

[HandyJon]

the inspector said it would then come within his remit if I moved the original external door onto the porch. That's why I had to fit a second external door to the inside, otherwise he wouldn't have approved the extension.
You could leave it open, but a future sale/searches would mean you'd need to fit the doors then.

If a porch was built with a new external door and the old one left in place, then no planning would be required. If someone come along later and decided that they didn't like the old external door and changed it to a internal door how would the planning dept know about it and how likely would it be that the owner at the time of the change new about such a minor part of the planning system. Most people know about extensions and conservatories needing planing, but not that changing what just looks like a normal door for a different style would need planning.

If the property was sold and the forms filled out to indicate the building work, and no planning application was found for the porch how would the soliciter know what kind of door was in place without looking. A surveyor would probably see it, but would they note it? It gets more complicated a couple of owners down the line!

Not saying that you should ignore planning laws, but just use them to you advantage. Like when knocking down a house you lose permitted development rights when re-building. But if you built a garage first using PDR from the old house before knocking it down then you get a brand new PDR with the new house which you can use for a an extension which is not used up by a garage. Nothing's changed but the order in which things are done.

 

[dougalhouse]

I did a similar thing on my old house and when i came to sell it all i had to do was take out indemnity insurance to satisfy my buyers solicitors!