Ring Main

Having just trawled through a few recent threads, I can see that correct terminology is quite a hot topic at present...
It's not only "at present" or "recent threads" - it's a perpetual issue which seems to excite some people, particularly a very small minority.

It's impossible to argue conceptually with the idealistic view that everyone should be educated to always use 'correct' language/terminology. However, in most walks of life, particularly technological fields, the reality is that the general public often use somewhat different vocabulary than do those who work in the trades/industries/professions in question - and, provided that the meaning of the general public's language is clear (which it usually is), that does not, IMO, actually produce any confusions or problems.

Kind Regards, John
 
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Except in the case where Joe Public sees a manufacturer-printed label marked "RING MAIN" and assumes, not unreasonably, that that is the correct terminology for that type of circuit.

Then, as you say, some people get excited because they are using the wrong terminology.

I have to add the only time it bothers me is when I am using the correct jargon and it causes confusion:

Me to customer: I have replaced the lamps in your bedroom.

Customer: But there's nothing wrong with them (meaning the table-top bedside light fittings).
 
Except in the case where Joe Public sees a manufacturer-printed label marked "RING MAIN" and assumes, not unreasonably, that that is the correct terminology for that type of circuit.
Yes, as I've agreed, if we want to try to encourage everyone to use 'correct' terminology (which I imagine we do), it would at least help if manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers etc used the correct words, since that is likely to be the main source of education on such matters for J Public.

However, as I've also said (with thoughts of pots and kettles!), electricians themselves are far from immune from using technically 'incorrect' terminology, even if only by abbreviation. I've already mentioned 'ring final' ('instead of the correct 'ring final circuit') but to talk of 'a radial' is far worse - since that could refer to an engine, a tyre, a capacitor or goodness knows what else! Perhaps worst of all in relation to types of circuit configuration (and commonly seen from electricians) is "RFC" which could mean 'radial final circuit' just as easily as 'ring final circuit'! ... then there are things like "board" and "panel", which could mean almost anything! .... etc. etc.
Then, as you say, some people get excited because they are using the wrong terminology.
As I've said, I would only get concerned, let alone 'excited', if there were ambiguity or other potential miscommunication.

Kind Regards, John
 
I have to add the only time it bothers me is when I am using the correct jargon and it causes confusion: ... Me to customer: I have replaced the lamps in your bedroom. ... Customer: But there's nothing wrong with them (meaning the table-top bedside light fittings).
Quite - but I would say that this is an example of a situation in which, in the interests of proper communication, those 'who know the correct terminology' should really adjust their language (even if it means using 'incorrect' terminology) according to whom they are talking to, even if the 'purists' would frown upon that. Similarly, those 'who know the correct terminology' should interpret what is being said to them in the light of who is saying it, even if they are using 'incorrect' terminology.

It's a common issue in many highly technical walks of life. Medicine is a good example - if healthcare professionals insisted on always using 'correct medical terminology' when talking to patients, they would quite often mislead, so they often use the language of the general public (even if 'medically incorrect').

Kind Regards, John"
 
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What I'm saying is that it is not surprising that people get the wrong idea when manufacturers mislead this way.
It's actually not only manufacturers:
Collins Dictionary said:
ring main
noun
a domestic electrical supply in which outlet sockets are connected to the mains supply through a ring circuit

Kind Regards, John
 
(which is what most electricians seem to call them)
Not sure they do, only time i hear it used is on here.
Oh, I see/hear it fairly widely - certainly not only here. What terminology are you used to seeing/hearing, then? - hopefully not 'RFC', which is diabolically ambiguous, given that the important distinction is usually between a Ring Final Circuit and a Radial Final Circuit !!

Kind Regards, John
 
OK if I was talking to an electrical engineer and I said I wanted a ring main fitting around the factory I would clearly to him not be talking about a ring final circuit and I would need to clarify exactly what I wanted. But in a DIY forum calling it simply a ring main is not really a problem as DIY people will likely never see the other type of ring main in the whole of their life.

I will agree that some things do cause confusion to me a driver controls current and to market a voltage regulated power supply as a driver is wrong.

A transformer is a wire wound device which either alters an AC current or voltage or isolates and calling a switched mode power supply with an AC output an "Electronic Transformer" is stretching it a bit but at least they use the word "Electronic".

When I did my apprenticeship a spur was an un-fused branch where a radial was a fused branch that has changed. Now one has to stipulate fused or not.

Again as an apprentice mainly in the motor trade I admit the road roller had spigots front and rear on these spigots we hung the lamps and inside the lamps we had wicks, mantels or bulbs. The whole thing was a lamp today we call it a fitting it seems. Many now call the bulb a lamp but had I asked for a lamp in our stores it would not have included the bulb.

Words do change meaning and not only with electric items decimate when I was a lad meant to get rid of 1 in 10 today people seem to mean 9 in 10 could not really swap the meaning more.

I had assumed the comment was ring main and 20 amp rather than 32 amp when at 20 amp one hardly needs a ring?

As to 13A that's a lot easier to remember than BS 1363 and I personally think it makes good sense to call them 13A sockets. I was surprised to find sockets with RCD protection built in and filters built in are only rated at 13A for the pair without any fuse to stop over that amount being drawn. Where there is a 13A socket we just plug into it without really adding up the load.

I think the whole idea of hospitals having BS 1363 plugs with no fuse as wrong even if done to ensure vital supplies are not interrupted. To me if it's that important it should have built in UPS.

We all see the errors with labels and naming
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this is the classic English is plain enough but Welsh says "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated." Swansea council had some red faces.

Since they speak little Welsh in South Wales don't really know why they bother only that by law it seems they must. Anyone seen BS7671 or Part P in Welsh? Theory is it does not count until published in Welsh as well. Clearly not a problem with BS 7671 it's not law but Part P!

Not that it helps me can read slow signs on the load and I know women on the loo starts with letter M so avoid walking into the ladies but don't read much Welsh and under stand a lot less.

We do select certain phrases and words no comprehend works between than I don't understand you it's more international. OK works it would seem everywhere.

So there are certain important words. We need to know what Extra Low Voltage, Reduced Low Voltage, and Low Voltage mean however erecting a sign.

"Danger Low Voltage"

Seems to miss the mark. So what should it say? "Danger 253 volts", "Danger 230 volts", "Beware Dangerous Voltage"?
 
Having just trawled through a few recent threads, I can see that correct terminology is quite a hot topic at present...
It's not only "at present" or "recent threads" - it's a perpetual issue which seems to excite some people, particularly a very small minority.
It is often the case that a small minority are more principled, educated and knowledgeable than the great mass of ignorami.

And the only approach which advances civilisation and humanity is to try and remedy ignorance rather than to try and dumb down and denigrate the small minority.


provided that the meaning of the general public's language is clear (which it usually is), that does not, IMO, actually produce any confusions or problems.
Which is utterly irrelevant to the correctness of the position that people should use the right terms.
 

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