Rising Damp.

[KonradFischer]

I agree with the criticals against rising damp. There is no capillarity between fine pored stones and rough pored mortars at all. So only condensation, hygroscopic salt burdens in the wall and plaster, pressuring water in the soil and spraying rain can moisture up the walls.

What helps? Resorbing layers by pure lime mortar or clay will bring out the salts, better heating of the wall (f.e. method: 'Temperierung') and the absolutely lack of any insulation materials and from inside and outside water rejecting polymer filled coatings without any capillarity.

Good luck!


Some more information

here - in english

Using Lime Mortar - in english


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moderator

edited to correct links

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Thank you, I'm still learning KF

 

[empip]

By the cringe ... Konrad you should meet up with old Moz, you'll have plenty to discuss.

 

[Volker]

Any ideas of how much a chemical DPC would cost?

Forget it as it's unworkable.

Rising damp is normally broken dpc and about a 1 metre in height.

I have heard about Dryzone Damp-proofing Cream but can't say, I do believe the only way so far is to renew the dpc BUT only if the dpc is broken which is very rare these days.

 

[Volker]

Check out the website www.aquapol.co.uk, you might find an eco-friendly answer to the problem. More than 31.000 installations have been carried out successfully in Europe by this system.

It re-polarizes the water molecule in that walls and sends it back where it came from. A very asthonishing proven new method.

Volker Kubillus

 

[Frederick]

Has anyone had a look at Graham Coleman's website, http://www.buildingpreservation.com/Contents.htm.

I have heard many wierd and wonderful theories about rising damp and its treatment over the years and Graham's opinion is one of the few that I respect.

I have seen what could only be described as rising damp on many occasions, although I would agree that it is not as common as many surveyors would suggest - as it is often a misdiagnosis of other forms of dampness. With regards to its treatment, the only treatments that I have found to be successful are based on silicone injection, including the new damp-proofing creams (although make sure you get a full-strength one, as there are a number of low-strength creams around that are not as effective).

 

[oilman]

OK fredrick, have you looked here?

 

[Softus]

Frederick

Visiting the web sites you suggested, I'm immediately turned off by the first paragraph, of G.R. Coleman's 1999 text, viz:

Contrary to a vociferous minority view, rising dampness does occur and is not that uncommon in properties without physical damp-proof courses (just put a brick/mortar in water and watch it wick)

This is riddled with opinion and subjective references, and it's only the first paragraph! Why on earth would you respect this?

We know that bricks are porous, and that capillary action can, and does, cause water to rise within one brick, but this is not a proof that rising damp occurs within brickwork.

As for "BRE Digest 245", the content of this page is no more valid than the kind of chat I have down the pub wiv me mates. It's incomprehensibly vague and unsubstantiated. I'd love to engage this bloke in a chat on this forum and find the exact basis of the "opinion" that you so revere.

I'd also be very interested to know your thoughts about KonradFischer's recent postings on this subject. He is very knowledgable, and specific, AND scientific, AND pragmatic, on the subject.

 

[oilman]

Softus, seems that you may have some useful knowledge or contacts (grovel, grovel, creep). Do you know anyone who could interpret (not just translate) Konrad's web pages? Providing there's no objection from Konrad of course.I would even be prepared to consider entering the Christmas festive spirit to achieve this. Best Christmas present ever.

 

[Frederick]

Softus,

Some might even say that Mr Fisher’s articles were “riddled with opinion and subjective references.”

Does this quote from Mr Fisher's website strike you as something you would expect from a balanced, rational person?

“Building protection is called here probably damaging with poisoned chemical weapons, normally used against iraquish kids and grannies?"

I have already said that I believe that rising damp is often misdiagnosed and Mr Fisher’s site is very good at pointing out various misdiagnosis. However, just because something is often misdiagnosed does not mean to say that it doesn’t exist.

I would also be interested in a discussion between yourself and Mr Coleman on this forum. It would be even better if Mr Fischer could be persuaded to join in. Perhaps he could explain how he has managed to elevate himself above the station of “pseudo neutral consultant.” Perhaps he has achieved a higher state of being which enables him, uniquely, to offer a truly objective viewpoint on the subject of rising dampness. Or perhaps he has his own agenda and is, in fact a "pseudo neutral consultant" himself.

 

[Softus]

Frederick

You have a good point, several in fact. I humbly acknowledge them all, and will go so far as to apologise for any harshness in my previous posting.

I'll await further developments on what I think is, and will remain, an interesting topic/thread.

S.

 

[KonradFischer]

'Mr Fischer could be persuaded to join' - no, i must not be persuaded, I would like to go into an open debate about this topic. And I'm just in it in german discussions, so I'm aware of nothing.

Ok, may be I'm not serious enough to be a well estimated guy, and not enough balanced and rational, but therefore humorous, sceptic and ironic. But what will be the best way to handle with the 'serious, balanced' experts prejudices?

I can do my job only with humour, otherwise I have to hang me up, or? Nevertheless, a objective point of view is impossible, I know this like you. My subjective opinion is to repair buildings (and build new ones) by the most simple, cheap and senseful means. And this will work only by leaving the mainstream very often (not always, may be). Thats my experience, sorry. And I learned this by making mistakes since over 20 years of not always best practise.

Finally to the topic of rising damp: Where are the 'serious and balanced' arguments against mine? I'm still waiting. Please look furtherwards to find an expert, who will contradict me in a scientific debate. To change only opinions and remarks about what can be seen and what can not be seen is not enough. In this case it would be enough by discussing the quality of different spectacles

 

[Frederick]

I feel a bit like I've crashed into this forum like a bull in a china shop. However, I would really be interested in hearing a balanced debate on rising damp. I don't know what it is about the subject, but it seems to attract some extreme and passionate viewpoints.

As someone that has been involved in property renovation for most of my working life, I was quick to accept the argument that rising damp is often over-diagnosed. However, there seems to be a group of people that are determined to take the argument a stage further and to claim that "rising damp doesn't exist." I find this viewpoint difficult to accept as I have seen many examples of dampness that I am unable to attribute to any other cause - e.g. damp internal walls in unmodified Victorian properties with the original horsehair plaster in which condensation was not a possible cause (several Rh readings taken and wall-surface temperature monitered at different times of day).

I am an open-minded person and I am willing to be persuaded by a compelling argument. However, I am not persuaded by the arguments that have been put forward so far. Konrad, for example, makes an interesting case on his website, but it does not explain what I have seen with my own eyes (and I have a better understanding of my own eyes than I have of physics).

PS, Konrad, I feel a bit guilty now about implying that you were not balanced or rational. However, some of the more extreme claims on your website - e.g. the one about silicones being poisoned chemical weapons used on Iraqi kids and grannies - don't do your cause any favours. You may mean it as a joke, but not everyone will understand it that way.

 

[Softus]

...Best Christmas present ever.

I agree! Given the common cause, no grovelling is needed whatsoever

I'll take a look at translating options and see what I can do.

 

[empip]

More from Eindhoven uni.
At :-
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~raojw/crd/reference/reference001088.html

In particular :-
Pel, L., (1995), Moisture transport in porous building materials, Ph. D. Thesis, Eindhoven University of Technology, Netherland.
http://www.phys.tue.nl/nfcmr/PhD-Pel-1995.pdf
See Chpt. 5, p.81... The findings related to the use/non use of an 'air-entraining agent', ( plasticiser I believe ) in the mortar and the resultant moisture transport or lack of it twixt brick and mortar.

 

[KonradFischer]

@Frederick: I understand you totally and beg you pardon my sarcasticism. An other example of my bitter humour: As I started my Lime mortar lecture at RILEM / University of Paisley I showed this:

The bombed Nuremberg - and commented: Germany is World Champion in Restorating Old Buildings since a long time.' Not everybody but many laughed. And a scotsman came to me afterwards and sayed: 'Great, I didn't know that germans have better humour than englishmans.' And may be you can understand (I don't mean accept) my point of view a little better when concerning that may father had suffered in an american POW concentration camp (Bad Kreuznach), what very few survived. So much to this very personal topic, even if it's not the perfect german humbleness .

The next: Please post some pics of the cases you argue rising damp. Maybe I can analyse it 'online', being experienced in such practise in my building consultance since many years.

@Softus: I'm upset to read your thoughts . If I would get some translation help, it would be a big favour for me to improve my web site with websites in good english. What I have learnt here is that there may be some sense in it. Unfortunately I have no money to grant such wonderful offers (what I would do gladly if I only could ). But maybe you will find ways that work ... And please sent me your adress, so I will sent you a mostly german edition (with some additional mpgs/wmvs with me belonging building repair)

Best regards to all

Konrad