RSJ & Half Brick Party Wall

[JDWHughes]

Hi,

I am planning a loft conversion in my 2 up 2 down 1880 terrace cottage.

I think my 1st floor party walls are only half brick walls. unfortunately i need 3 RSJ's spanning between the party walls.

Is this possible with half brick walls? How can it be done?

I have tried to look at the top of the party walls but in all places there is a joist running along them so can't see the top to double check they are half brick. the upstairs rooms are approximately 70mm wider than the ground floor which is ehat makes me think they are half brick upstairs.

Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Sounds like a little more investigation needs to be done.
It might be worth removing one or two to check it out.
Your RSJ should be supported by 150mm both sides of span.
If the walls are not suitable for this support, support pillars could be built up.

 

[noseall]

Steel beams can sit on half brick thick walls i.e. 100mm bearing and is a typical and very common scenario.

 

[JDWHughes]

So a couple more questions

To build up supports would they need to come from the ground floor? or could they be built on top of the 1 brick thick ground floor party walls? Presumably if they can be built on top of the party wall below they would need some sort of smaller sized brick? as there would only be a quater brick surface available to build on?

If i support the beams on top of the 100mm half brick walls presumably i must agree this with my neighbours etc and agree to make good on their sides of the party wall?

Is there any way of checking the thickness of the wall without causing damage to next doors side? I have looked in my loft but there is a breeze block wall built on top of the party wall, all i can see is a ceiling joist running parallel to the breeze block wall so am unable to check below it to see if there are 2 layers of brick.


Thanks again

 

[wavetrain]

I think my 1st floor party walls are only half brick walls.

Why do you think this? Your questions revolve around your belief that it is half brick thick yet you have not provided evidence to support this. Also breeze blocks cannot be 1880 vintage can they?

Why not drill through the mortar and remove one brick in the loft to check or work out the thickness of the wall in the bedrooms by measurement, and then ask your questions in this forum?

Also write I instead of i please.

 

[JDWHughes]

If i take out 1 brick and it is only half a brick thick it will damage the wall finish next-door right? I would like to find out for sure without causing any damage to nextdoor. as before i begin work i will need party wall agreement and i want them to say yes, not obstruct me down because i pulled a brick out without knowing what the effect would be on their house....

 

[wavetrain]

I was referring to removing a brick in the loft. Please re-read my previous post.

 

[JDWHughes]

I think the same issue still applies. I would be damaging the wall adjoining their loft space. I have not been in their house but they have skylights both sides so i presume they use their lofts as rooms.

 

[wavetrain]

Then measure on the first floor inside and outside from window frame to party wall in your house and in theirs and work out the thickness of the PW.

Was is with the i i i instead of I I I these days?

 

[JDWHughes]

when typing in word and other word processors i is automatically changed to I so there is no need to do it yourself, out of habit i no longer capitalise my i beacuse 99.9% of time the software is dong it for me.... this is a informal forum so i don't really see then need to go back and correct, sorry if it bothers you but i think its quite trivial. However i have just spent more time explaining this to you than it would have taken me to correct my i to I so maybe i should have.... anyway whatever....

How can i tell where the party wall edge is outside? I think because all of the houses in the terrace are rendered this wont work?

 

[wavetrain]

How can i tell where the party wall edge is outside? I think because all of the houses in the terrace are rendered this wont work?

You measure inside your house and next doors and outside. Measure distances A, B & C as below. The brown is a wall, and the blue is a window frame.

Untitled

• wavetrain
• 3 May 2011
• 1

And you mean 'won't' work not 'wont' work above.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Also, breeze blocks cannot be 1880 vintage can they?

Almost certainly not, but many Victorian terraces were built with no separating walls in the attic so likely that the breezeblock wall was added later.

I think the same issue still applies. I would be damaging the wall adjoining their loft space. I have not been in their house but they have skylights both sides so i presume they use their lofts as rooms.

So have they had a loft conversion done? How is their loft conversion floor supported?
Anyway, there are alternatives without using the party wall for support. It may involve spanning beams from the front and back walls to the spine wall, keeping them tight to the party wall. These beams are then used to support the new floor joists. This also avoids the need for a Party Wall Award.