Rubber Roof - problem

[Diver Fred]

Are you suggesting to put a patch the whole way along or just near the corner?

You certainly need a patch on the corner to stop any water seeping under the EDPM in that area. You may beed to extend the patch depending on how far along the roofline the EDPM is trimmed close to the roof. One of your pictures seems to indicate the EDPM comes down about half way behind the gutter trim so hopefully that is sufficient to clamp it in place.

 

[noseall]

Are you suggesting to put a patch the whole way along or just near the corner?

I'd make sure that once the trim was removed, and I saw that the same issue could occur further along, I'd fix it pronto.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

The trouble is, doing a patch along that stretch could make matters worse.

A) If we extend the rubber with a patch on top, firstly we have to hope that it will remain glued on to the existing EDPM, besring on kind that it is going to be folded over the edge and between the trim. Also, that patch will result in a raises ridge and run off will always gather behind that before being sufficient to flow over the top. This could all undermine the patch.

B) The safer option would seem to be a length of rubber beneath the existing membrane, glued to the deck, then fold down between the trim, and then bring the existing membrane back over that. The trouble is, this will provide a raised area for the existing membrane to get over before it reaches the necessary part of the trim. There might not be enough as it is already short.

Or am I missing something?

I think Ivor's solution seems most expedient and would work - IF - there's enough rubber available to get to the clamping point.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

It's the easiest way, and puts you back where you were when it was built.

But there's definitely a desperate shortage of material there. I'd want to look at what's going on with the corner. It looks like there's going to be nothing covering the wood there even after clipping it back in, in which case you have a problem. So perhaps it does need something under that corner, but this would involve a fair bit of stripping back.

It should have had enough overhang to wrap over itself on the corner, but that version of reality isn't where we are...

 

[Diver Fred]

It's the easiest way, and puts you back where you were when it was built.

But there's definitely a desperate shortage of material there. I'd want to look at what's going on with the corner. It looks like there's going to be nothing covering the wood there even after clipping it back in, in which case you have a problem. So perhaps it does need something under that corner, but this would involve a fair bit of stripping back.

I can only agree. The trims need to come off and you need to see just how short of covering the timber the EDPM is. Just fixing back the existing edge under the gutter trim will only delay solving the problem and in the end may cost you a lot more. It looks to me that the EDPM was laid by a company who haven't down the training course on laying the material - particularly on how to fold and complete the corners.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

Just to be clear, the deck is all covered by the EDPM. It is the correct length on the front of the extension, but not on the adjoining gutter side, but even there, it goes past the deck and over the main fascia board and top of the batten, albeit not by enough.

What will not be covered if this is fixed as Ivor suggests (minus extra rubber patch) is a very small part at the end of the pink batten. As you can see in the photos. And it would still be pretty well shielded, even more so with a corner trim.

Rainwater doesn't run off there so it will be a case of occasional splashing from rain. I see no reason why the very small amount of exposed batten (a few mm in length) at the end couldn't be caked in silicone for good measure. The end of the batten there isn't even wet now after all the rain and that is with this situation where the EDPM has come out of the trim.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

Some photos to show more clearly.

 

[noseall]

Some photos to show more clearly.

Looks to me like the roofers scrimped and should have gone up another increment when buying the rubber off the roll.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

Yes, although there's plenty at the other side of the roof where it goes right up under the roof tiles. So incompetence might be the main factor.

I have put a screw in further along the trim where one of the capped nails was missing and, as Ivor suggested, this has really pulled the trim in tight. And it becomes obvious that the nails don't do a great job of clasping the rubber in place. You can see a 0.5mm gap along the top of the trim where they have been used. So, notwithstanding the basic problem of the rubber being too short, I think this could be solved by:

A) removing the trim
B) using some strong glue between rubber and deck along the whole side near the edge to really hold the membrane to the deck better
C) fat bead of silicone along leading edge of the deck as a water proofing precaution
D) pull the rubber down as far as it will go
E) reattach Black trim using screws and black caps. And get the trim tight to the rubber.

This is the least complicated way of solving this for the time being. Getting these clowns to start extending the rubber with patches is a waste of time and might not even work that well if competent people did it along such a critical edge of the roof.

I will just do the whole bloody thing again in a year or however long I get. I know somebody now who is competent in such matters and I will help him do it when the time comes. It's a real shame because I took a lot of care getting loads of quotes and ultimately took a recommendation from a neighbour who had these guys reroof their house as an insurance job. Seems they weren't on the ball for me despite being such a nice customer. Only thing I will say for them is that even after 18 months, they always come back to do snags without any complaint when I ask and their work on the main roof has been 'good enough' over all.

 

[cdbe]

The manufacturers instructions for every one of these gutter trims state that the rubber must extend to the bottom of the trim. This is so water sheds into the gutter, not against the fascia and down the wall or anywhere else it shouldn't go.

EPDM rubber is a product that can be successfully glued to itself - ordinarily done when covering a large roof, but in your case a 100% manufacturer approved solution to the mess your pretend roofers have left you with (imagine your roof was 3.2m wide and the EPDM was 3.1m wide - it would just be extended by real roofer's and you'd never even know).

I really don't understand why you need to bodge this when it can be sorted out properly.

Regarding your points above -

"strong glue" won't stick to EPDM,

silicone won't stick to EPDM,

Here's a picture of a real roofing man glueing some EPDM together - it's really not a big deal.

Oh, and be careful with those ring shank poly top nails, they're really hard to get out (by design) - don't lever directly against the trim or it will crack.

 

[Diver Fred]

May I suggest you have a look at this UToob episode - in particular from 6 minutes in. The way he does the corners is one way (it's not the way I've seen them done but it works). If you look around you will find a posting about how external flashing works and secured.

I hope that explains why those of us with the experience of EDPM repeat that the finishing Trims need to come off so that the roof can problems can be corrected.

As cdbe comments using the correct bondings EDPM can successfully be joined. The sooner it is done the better.

 

[John Smith Esq.]

I appreciate the advice.

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting that silicone be used to glue down the rubber. I said it could be put over the few mm of partially exposed pink batten near the corner. And glue can be used to adhere the membrane to the deck, this is part of the process although, yes, even the proper stuff can of limited utility as rubber doesn't like to stick to things.

Yes, the membrane needs to be extended. I don't think extending it from its current edge is a good idea as this is literally at a point where it needs to fold over the side of the roof and down towards the fascia. And it is on the side of the roof where torrents of water run off into the gutter. So most likely it could do with being cut back by a foot and then joined to a new piece of rubber on a flat area of the deck. Agreed?

The problem I have is that I don't trust the roofer, with whom I have a guarantee, to do this properly. And I need a roofer who:

A) is willing to fix a problem caused by somebody else.
B) is competent.
C) isn't a total scumbag.

The above will be a challenge. The roofing game seems to be full of scum. The ones who are competent are incredibly expensive and hard to pin down to do work at short notice, and I don't have a spare 1500 quid or whatever they'll want to sort this - assuming they are willing to, which they probably won't be. And I certainly don't have the 4 or 5 grand a properly trained roofer will want to do it all again.

So for now, I need get it so it is stable and water tight for a while. Despite what people are saying, water CANNOT get in if the rubber is correctly pinned down, even if it is short. I am referring to my case. I'm not saying it should be like this I am saying water cannot get in and have explained why in previous posts. There is no evidence at all of wet under the rubber, even after nearly two years.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Stick it all back together, give it a good squeeze together with some stainless screws and give yourself an official "It'll be reet" award.

It's not perfect but neither's life. It will outlive any of us just as long as it stays clipped in.